Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

All info relating to the Denford MicroMill and MicroTurn lathes and mills

Moderators: Martin, Steve, Mr Magoo

Post Reply
y-aji
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue 15 Jun , 2010 8:41 am
Hardware/Software: Scantek 2000 (Micromill)

Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by y-aji » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 4:46 am

Hello and thanks for accepting me to the forum! ^_^

My father and I are trying to breathe some life into a micromill 2000 (smartstep 3 with a denMENT 2.0b controller) and are missing the software to do so. We don't have the correct Denford software key for it, and it appears that the serial interface is hard to get software for.

That being said, we are considering picking up a hobbyCNC to replace the mainboard for interfacing with more common open source cnc software:

https://www.hobbycnc.com/products/hobbyc ... oard-kits/

All seems well, but we're concerned about burning out the motors before doing any kind of modding. We have found from the spec sheets that the motor drivers are receiving what appears to be 29 volts, but pulling the datasheets for the particular motor show a resistance of 1.8 ohms at 2 amps with no specification on voltage. I assume that means it's 3.6v.

Am I understanding something incorrectly about the voltage input or is there something between the motors and the driver board that is limiting the voltage?

I guess the question I'm trying to get out is, if I were to strip this thing, what kind of voltage are these motors going to need to run safely? At the moment we are assuming the motors need 3.6v dc at 2 amps, but it LOOKS like it's receiving 29v ac from the transformer and we don't know how many amps.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Keith

y-aji
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue 15 Jun , 2010 8:41 am
Hardware/Software: Scantek 2000 (Micromill)

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by y-aji » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 4:58 am

To add to this. We are not opposed to preserving the hardware already in place, if anyone has any inexpensive solutions to getting this thing hooked to a computer and running, but unfortunately as more of a hobby project, it is out of our budget to do anything at all expensive like having it mailed (as suggested) in to be updated.

User avatar
Steve
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1451
Joined: Tue 21 Feb , 2006 16:15 pm
Location: Denford UK

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by Steve » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 8:50 am

Hi,

Several things:

Can you photograph the control card especially the EPROM. If you have an older EPROM then the machine will run on the DOS Software which is available for free from the download section of our website.

The serial interface should not be a problem.



The stepper motors will run to quite high voltages. Typically the Smartstep control card can drive the steppers at 2A at a voltage up to 32VDC.

The restriction on the voltage is the control card chips not the motor. You will be able to go up to 50V without any problem.

The higher the voltage the better the motor torque response as the current gets into the windings faster. The stepper drive will then limit the current at 2A.

User avatar
Denford Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3649
Joined: Fri 10 Feb , 2006 12:40 pm
Hardware/Software: Go to User Control Panel > Profile
Enter as much information about your CNC hardware and software as you can - it makes it easier for everyone to know what you're talking about then.
Location: Sunny Brighouse
Contact:

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by Denford Admin » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 8:53 am

You could remove the top card in order to tap into the step/direction pins, therefore keeping the existing base unit to drive the steppers:
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2264

y-aji
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue 15 Jun , 2010 8:41 am
Hardware/Software: Scantek 2000 (Micromill)

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by y-aji » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 14:24 pm

You guys are awesome. I was thinking about playing w/ the driver board and just making a controller for it, but figured that i'd be in about the same place w/ the project.. A device that most of the software I can find wouldn't support.

Cool! An essentially not particular voltage requirement would explain why the voltage isn't specified on the datasheet for the motor.

Image attached
Image

User avatar
Denford Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3649
Joined: Fri 10 Feb , 2006 12:40 pm
Hardware/Software: Go to User Control Panel > Profile
Enter as much information about your CNC hardware and software as you can - it makes it easier for everyone to know what you're talking about then.
Location: Sunny Brighouse
Contact:

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by Denford Admin » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 15:00 pm

I'm sure the stepper stage takes in 24-30V AC or DC and is rectified (if AC) then goes out to the motors - think max spec of the drives is 2Amp

The drive supply is a seperate input from the control (top board supply) - the red/yellow/orange(?)/black wires on the bottom right of your pic.

Martin
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1921
Joined: Fri 24 Feb , 2006 17:09 pm
Location: Brighouse

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by Martin » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 16:48 pm

The picture is showing a Smarstep control card. I belive the drives are similar but both the logic & drive power are combinded on the 2 red wires on the bottom right orange plug.

User avatar
Steve
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1451
Joined: Tue 21 Feb , 2006 16:15 pm
Location: Denford UK

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by Steve » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 17:06 pm

While you can input power to the Smartstep as either AC or DC the max input is 28V AC which is rectified on board. If the DC goes above 34V you risk problems.

The EPROM is DENMINT Ver2.0b so this machine has previously run with VR Milling 2 software.

I am not sure if you would want to backdate to DOS. Do you know where the machine originated from? Could you get the software?

While we can still supply software for the machne we would have to charge for it.

y-aji
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue 15 Jun , 2010 8:41 am
Hardware/Software: Scantek 2000 (Micromill)

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by y-aji » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 18:18 pm

Thanks guys. Paying for the software is definitely totally out of the question (unless I get a pleasant surprise on a very low price).
It was purchased from an auction and definitely that is all we're gonna get. We have the software, but not the dongle needed to go with the software. Upon plugging in the machine and initializing the software, it says "please insert dongle key" which we don't have.. I'm sure it was probably on a scrapped pc somewhere else in the stack..

If I could find a dongle key for it that was inexpensive, we would probably go that route if (again) it were not a pricey object..

edit: that sounded jerkfaced.. I'm not against buying software, I just stress I am looking for hobbiest priced software, not professional software. And I'm assuming that the Denford software is marketed as a professional item.
Last edited by y-aji on Wed 16 Jun , 2010 18:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

y-aji
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue 15 Jun , 2010 8:41 am
Hardware/Software: Scantek 2000 (Micromill)

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by y-aji » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 18:47 pm

@Steve, When you say that you risk problems above 34v dc/28v ac, do you mean powered into the motor? As said above, it appears that, by design, the board takes 29v.

y-aji
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue 15 Jun , 2010 8:41 am
Hardware/Software: Scantek 2000 (Micromill)

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by y-aji » Wed 16 Jun , 2010 22:13 pm

We found that there was a registration DISK that we missed rather than the specified dongle. It works! Can anyone tell me the serial communications info (baud rate, parody, stop bits, data bits, hw flow, sw flow)?

We tried 9600/4800/100 with the rest default, but got gibberish.

I found this post:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2281

Which I felt was a good hint, but it's still shooting out gibberish and not responding to the software. The software is vr milling v2.30.3.947.

Thanks,

Keith

User avatar
Steve
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1451
Joined: Tue 21 Feb , 2006 16:15 pm
Location: Denford UK

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by Steve » Thu 17 Jun , 2010 8:47 am

Hi,

When I say the supply of 28V into the Smartstep this will not effect the motors at all

If you are using the existing electronics then you do not have any problem. The supply fed to the Smartstep also provides the logic for the controller. Anything over 28V in causes the regulator to overheat and the card to shutdown.

If you have the software CD which can be downloaded and you have the security key on floppy disc you are in good shape as the machine will work. You should not have to do anything with the serial port settings as the controller will search for a connection and make the settings.

All you need is to connect the machine to the computer to Com 1 and then ensure the configuration in the settings is com 1 also. (Setup , machine parameters, Communications.)

Make sure the correct machine type is selected. Also Are you located in the UK or the USA? Have you got the correct external serial connection cable?
Attachments
screen1.jpg
screen1.jpg (69.58 KiB) Viewed 30769 times

User avatar
Denford Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3649
Joined: Fri 10 Feb , 2006 12:40 pm
Hardware/Software: Go to User Control Panel > Profile
Enter as much information about your CNC hardware and software as you can - it makes it easier for everyone to know what you're talking about then.
Location: Sunny Brighouse
Contact:

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by Denford Admin » Thu 17 Jun , 2010 10:09 am

Nb - with that machine, be sure to pick MicroMill and not MicroMillNS - the default params for Micromill should find the machine straight away without any changes. (as long as the correct serial cable is used)

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=544

y-aji
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue 15 Jun , 2010 8:41 am
Hardware/Software: Scantek 2000 (Micromill)

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by y-aji » Thu 17 Jun , 2010 20:47 pm

Good afternoon!

We are located in the US and yeah, we have the cable that came with the machine. I was suspecting that could be the problem earlier, but have been reassured that this was the original cable.

All right, after poking at it some more! Looks like we got it to home ONCE. the Z axis didn't move, but the X and Y did. But after homing one time, we can't get it to move again, we tried turning it off and manually moving it to another location, then turned it back on in attempt to get it to home again. Nothing.

We've tried jogging it to at least see if we could manually make it move, still nothing. The software reports that it is moving, and that the machine is ready or not ready if the door is open, but so far we aren't able to get it to do a whole lot. We've listened for clicking noises and humming while jogging it, and can't hear anything. I suppose it could be bad relays, but it's hard to believe all 3 would be bad.

The motors aren't hot at all, so we don't suspect any power is getting to the motors at all, so we assume it's either something with the controller or the relays.

Any suggestions at all on how to further troubleshoot this? Has this officially left the subject of this thread? Would you like me to start a new one?

Thanks,

Keith

User avatar
Denford Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3649
Joined: Fri 10 Feb , 2006 12:40 pm
Hardware/Software: Go to User Control Panel > Profile
Enter as much information about your CNC hardware and software as you can - it makes it easier for everyone to know what you're talking about then.
Location: Sunny Brighouse
Contact:

Re: Micromill 2000 - Stepper specs

Post by Denford Admin » Fri 18 Jun , 2010 9:06 am

Yes start a new thread - its probably a fuse now

Post Reply