VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

All info relating to Viceroy machines - Lathes, sharpedge, drills etc...

Moderators: Martin, Steve, Mr Magoo

Post Reply
paulmo101
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu 24 May , 2007 16:32 pm

VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by paulmo101 » Fri 11 Dec , 2020 16:09 pm

Hi
Just wondering if anyone has converted the viceroy 1.1 TDS GB using the newton Tesla kit ? I`m looking at using the new AV750 kit with 1 hp motor and I`m thinking of removing my countershaft as the motor shaft will only carry a single pulley, I think, and I was wondering what diameter pulley would be a good option on the motor ? I`m going to leave the standard pulley on the spindle for the moment and I`m not sure what diameter that is until I start to remove stuff. Also is there a better alternative to the std T link belt that will fit the original spindle pulley ?

Cheers

Paul

paulmo101
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu 24 May , 2007 16:32 pm

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by paulmo101 » Fri 11 Dec , 2020 17:59 pm

Having re-read a few posts especially Dazz`s post on his conversion it looks like keeping the countershaft maybe the way to go - so any suggestions as to motor pulley diameter to use WITH the countershaft? I`m thinking I could try all of the 4 pulleys on the countershaft to try to get a decent range of speeds before re positioning the motor cradle for a single motor pulley.

richardb
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun 17 May , 2020 21:17 pm
Hardware/Software: TDS1GB

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by richardb » Sat 12 Dec , 2020 17:21 pm

I did the conversion back in 2006 - does not seem that long ago !

I don't understand what you are saying about single pulleys - I have just replaced the motor using the 5 speed pulley originally fitted (4+1 for coolant if fitted).
Mine is the CL750 with 1 horse power DC motor - looking at their website the AV750 looks virtually the same.
It realy has transformed the lathe - mine had a single phase unit before that was really underpowered. I now often just select one pully size and it copes with quite a lot of situations only altering pulleys when required. The variable speed is excellent and for shorter periods you can extent the lathe rev range by running below the recommended lowest continuous motor speed especially with lighter cuts without overheating.

Newton Tesla were very very helpful and friendly to deal with and suppied the motor to fit the pulley and footplate to suit the original frame size.
My lathe has the air kick stop emergency brake at the base and I wanted to keep it so they added the necessary wiring to allow me to keep it. I removed the original lathe door switches mine had as I didn't want them. The Jog feature is really useful when setting up and checking the work out prior to starting up.
I would speak to NT and see what notors they can offer these days.

I've attached some pic's and a copy of my motor speed chart I made up.

Richard B.
Attachments
IMG_0643.JPG
IMG_0643.JPG (47.13 KiB) Viewed 12919 times
IMG_0644.JPG
IMG_0644.JPG (49.77 KiB) Viewed 12919 times
IMG_0645.JPG
IMG_0645.JPG (61.12 KiB) Viewed 12919 times

richardb
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun 17 May , 2020 21:17 pm
Hardware/Software: TDS1GB

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by richardb » Sat 12 Dec , 2020 17:31 pm

Forgot to note that the torque is pretty much constant and whilst I've noted the speeds at set motor rev ranges it is obviously continuously variable through the rev range.

With out a doubt the worth fitting.

paulmo101
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu 24 May , 2007 16:32 pm

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by paulmo101 » Sat 12 Dec , 2020 18:46 pm

Hi Richard - I have had chance today to have a better look at the current "Hoover" motor that is fitted. Originally I was under the impression that the Newton Tesla motor`s drive shaft would not be long enough to fit the standard 4 + 1 pulley but as you say I think its, hopefully, a straight swap as the original motor shaft is not as long as the length of the standard pulleys. I`ve just ordered the AV750 which is the 1 hp version. This should keep me out of mischief over the Christmas holidays. Big thanks for the reply it was very helpful and points me in the direction of my plan A.

All the best

Paul

paulmo101
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu 24 May , 2007 16:32 pm

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by paulmo101 » Sat 12 Dec , 2020 19:31 pm

Hi Richard I`ve just had another look at your pics as I was wondering where to mount the control box for the VFD. I notice yours looks to be over the motor door - do you have to remove it to access the motor - just thinking of if you need to change the belt position ?

I have ordered the AV750 with the B56 motor frame which I`m told is the same mounting etc. as the standard motor I`m about to remove.


Thanks again.

richardb
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun 17 May , 2020 21:17 pm
Hardware/Software: TDS1GB

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by richardb » Sat 12 Dec , 2020 21:04 pm

Mine is mounted to the side of the motor door so no problem opening the door - just the angle of the pic.
It covers over the opening where the old control panel was mounted.

Can't find the details of what I ordered just now but I did check and specify the shaft diameter.
My old motor was the original Brooks and Crompton one.

If you need any more info/pics let me know.

Richard.

paulmo101
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu 24 May , 2007 16:32 pm

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by paulmo101 » Sun 13 Dec , 2020 11:38 am

Hi Richard

Thanks for the reply and offer of help.

As you say the pic angle looked like it was cover the motor bay door but I understand where you`ve put it now.

Hoping my order will be here before Christmas as it will give me an excuse to stop eating and drinking whilst having a play with this project.

Like your machine mine seemed very underpowered - it was a 3 phase machine and when I got it I purchased a VFD drive for it as the motor was dual voltage. It worked Okay but lacked power on cuts over about 1mm and heavier drilling ops over about 12 - 14mm. Over time it seems to have lost more power and the last time I attempted a small turning project it was stalling even on lighter cuts around 0.5mm so I decided to go with the Tesla AV750 as its all prewired and programmed for best performance and the motor is matched to the VFD. I think that was the problem with my setup on the viceroy as the motor was probably 40 year old and not keen on the VFD although its kept going since I had the lathe which must be around 10 years ago.

Thanks again for the offer of assistance which I may take you up on once my stuff arrives.

All the best

Paul

paulmo101
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu 24 May , 2007 16:32 pm

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by paulmo101 » Sun 13 Dec , 2020 11:42 am

Hi Richard

Forgot to say - the speed chart looks great I shall certainly do the same as its very useful. As you said I would imagine you can set your belt some where in the mid range then use the VFD most of the time so eliminating a lot of belt changes.

Thanks again

Paul

richardb
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun 17 May , 2020 21:17 pm
Hardware/Software: TDS1GB

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by richardb » Sun 13 Dec , 2020 14:45 pm

My motor was single phase and ISTR only 0.75hp.

I think you may take much heavier cuts than I do ! I think they also do bigger motors !

Hope it all works out for you.

paulmo101
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu 24 May , 2007 16:32 pm

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by paulmo101 » Sun 13 Dec , 2020 15:05 pm

Hi Richard
Thanks again for the reply.

I only tend to take cuts of up to about 1mm but I noticed initially it struggled around that point and slowly got worse.

I have heard people say that can take 3 or 4 mm cuts on a viceroy no problem !!! Dont think I`ll be trying that any time soon.

I have gone for the 1hp option which should be fine for me and a vast improvement on my current setup.

Again thanks for the kind words and I will post something when I`m sorted.

Take care

Paul

User avatar
dazz
CNC Expert
CNC Expert
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat 19 Aug , 2006 11:31 am
Hardware/Software: Viceroy TDS 1/1GB lathe, Imperial, stripped down and rebuilt.
Viceroy Taper/Tracer attachment, Shop made cross slide tracer attachment, VSD.
Location: New Zealand

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by dazz » Tue 29 Dec , 2020 4:12 am

Hi
The major reason I replace the step pulley with a single pulley was because I always had problems with the motor pulley working loose. The easiest way to solve that problem was to fit a single pulley. With the back gear, that gives 2 gear ranges. That is enough for high torque, low speed operations, and high speed, not so much torque ops.

The optimum speed to operate the motor is its rated speed. At this point, it is most efficient, produces the most torque and the most power. Size the pulleys to operate the motor at the lathe spindle speed you use most often.

The min motor pulley size is limited by the specs for the belt and the tapered locking system I used. The dia of the large pulley is limited by the available space. Reputable belt manufacturers provide calculators to figure out all those details. I used a polly vee belt because they are quiet, high torque, easy to find (buy) and they come in many sizes from many suppliers.

With the benefit of hindsight, I would make the larger pulley about 20% bigger.

The Denford is a nice lathe but not a heavy cutter. The easiest way to take big cuts is to buy a bigger lathe. That's what I did, but kept the Denford as well. The Denford is really good for hitting fine tolerances with the right technique.
Regards

Dazz

paulmo101
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu 24 May , 2007 16:32 pm

Re: VBiceroy 1.1 TDS GB Pulley size for vfd conversion

Post by paulmo101 » Tue 29 Dec , 2020 17:08 pm

Hi

Thanks for the replies.

I have now fitted the Newton Tesla AV750 motor and controller and I`m very pleased with my initial results. Torque and speed control seem very good.

I decided to keep the step pulleys and it seems to work well and this will give me plenty of options with the vfd as well and I will keep an eye on the pulleys to ensure they dont move on the shaft.

Hoping everyone has a happy, safe and prosperous New year in 2021

Post Reply