New guy, old lathe, advice please!

[Nigel R]

Hi,
Just found this forum! I bought a Viceroy TDS? a while ago off Ebay.... I paid £100 for it as it's speed control system wasn't working (It had an analogue control system - can't remember the make now but it was full of relays etc. The motor was big DC thing with a V.Ref generator hung on the back).

I've fitted a 1hp 3 phase motor coupled to an Omron inverter/speed controller I'm driving via the original drive pulley so I can use both low and high ratios. Low speed is fine with lots of torque and I can run it from zero up to full motor speed of 1800rpm (I don't know what that relates to via the gearbox but a bit slow). High ratio is positively scary via the gearbox but there isn't much torque, although high rpm gives a great finish on aluminium using indexable carbide.

Enough of an intro! I do have some questions and I'm not a turner by trade but I do need the lathe to produce 2 jobs on a regular basis for a product I make and sell. I've done my best to set it up and I'm getting around .003 runout on the 3 jaw chuck - any opinion? I can turn to within .001" in steel and for the job in hand it's acceptable. However, the saddle is loose! I can grab it by the cross-slide and lift it. It's particularly evident when parting off, which tends to lift it unless I go v e r e y s l o w l y. This doesn't occur when the feed is selected but because it's a fiddly job I have to use it without the feed driving. There's a square headed screw which I thought may take up excess play but it can screw right into the side of the saddle until it disappears! I'm thinking that its missing some sort of insert?

I look forward to your comments guys - Thanks in advance

[oldboyouttheback]

Hi Nigel. Welcome to the forum.

I will try and answer your questions as no one else has yet come foward.

Take great care when running at higher chuck speeds than original lathe was designed for. All chucks have a max running speed and you do not want to exeed that or even come close to it unless you know the history of the chuck. ( Exploding chucks are no ones friend )

Second, 0.003 run out from an old 3 jaw is not bad.

Third, there is nothing holding the front of saddle to the bed but gravity. You are partly correct about the screw in the front of saddle. It is the carriage lock screw, which should be used when facing or parting off to prevent movement of the carriage, and slackened off when not.
If the screw does not tighten then you do have a problem, either it has unscrewed completely from the lock plate, and if you are lucky it will still be there, or if not it may have gone missing, and you will have to make or find a replacement.

I do not understand why your carriage should lift when parting off. All forces from the cutting tool should be pushing down on the carriage.

[Nigel R]

Thanks for your reply Oldboyouttheback, sorry for the delay in replying, I've not been visiting daily due to the lack of replies!

It looks like I can remove the front side of the saddle by removing the Allen screws? If so it should be easy to take a look. I also have play in the cross slide - I see there is a guy on Ebay who makes pattern nuts for many makes, and will 'do requests'.

Thanks for the advice on running at high speeds; I must say the chuck takes on a fearful persona!

You obviously know a bit about these?

Thanks again.

[TDIPower]

Hi, Ive had 'the guy' on ebay do a nut for my Boxford TUD. I sent him my old unit and the screw as he said he would try and make it fit as best as possible. It is evident that my screw is worn as the new nut shows less back lash at the section not used much. Worth doing to get it to a more usable state.

everything can come to bits, it was made at some point so worth doing to get it back up and running.

Pete

[Nigel R]

Thanks Pete. Yes, I checked mine at full travel and there is not much play whereas there is an unacceptable amount in the normal use area as well.

Having decided to stick with my old Viceroy instead of going down the Warco route, I realise that I can spend a fair bit on sorting it and still be better off than if I forked out for a new lathe. I'll just have to work though it one bit at a time so it's not out of action!

Cheers.

[oldboyouttheback]

I have now had time to warm up the dormant grey matter and having gone into memory mode I now remember that the carriage lock screw has a tapered end which pushes a locking pin up against the bottom of the bedway. Mine was missing the pin when I got it and had to make one. IIRC I made one from a piece of silver steel rod, I think about 1/4'' dia and rounded at the end which the tapered screw abutts.
As I converted mine to ball screws and stepper motor control a few years ago, I do have a spare crosslide screw and nut. In fact I have two, as I brought a NOS one being advertised on ebay. The screws are identical but I think the nut has a slightly different mounting .
If you are interested let me know and I will look them out.

John

[Nigel R]

Mmm yes please John! Sorry for the delayed reply, but I would be interested so please PM me with details of price.

Thanks

Nigel

[latherus]

Hi New guy old lathe. I have just bought a Denford viceroy TDS 1/2 and have completely dismantled it, the cross slide is clamped over the main bed slide by means of a long flat machined plate held in place by two cap head screws which with the apron anchor the whole assembly very solidly, meaning when in place the carriage can only move forward and back. I think this must be missing on your lathe! Regards Latherus

[Pzy]

Hi. You mentioned that you have completely stripped your lathe down. I have a Denford Viceroy TDS and I'm wondering if you know how to remove the swiveling compound slide from its base. There appears to be some fixture that stops it from being removed.

[Andy B]

Hi Pzy,
Drawing ML100/500 shows this assembly - https://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=2986


Remove the 2 grub screws from the little 'wings' - then you should be able to see a plug in each; these have an angled end to engage on the dovetail.
Edit - according to the drawings (ML100/507 & ML100/507A), the plugs are steel - https://www.denfordata.com/downloads/for ... 0scans.pdf
Edit:- some have a third screw in the end.
They should drop out with a bit of jiggling, but if they are crudded up with dried oil/grease and swarf you may need to give it a soaking of solvent and a prod with a bit of wire to help free them. Once the plugs are withdrawn to the depth of the dovetail the two castings should separate.

Hope this helps.
Andy

[Pzy]

Thanks, that's really helpful. I have already removed the three grub screws and previously peered into the holes (as best as I could) but now I have the drawings I know what I am looking at. Those plugs don't want to fall out at present, but they are now soaking in solvent. I will try them again later, and if that doesn't work I may have to try plan B...

[Pzy]

Hi Pzy,
Drawing ML100/500 shows this assembly - https://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=2986


Remove the 2 grub screws from the little 'wings' - then you should be able to see a plug in each; these have an angled end to engage on the dovetail.
Edit - according to the drawings (ML100/507 & ML100/507A), the plugs are steel - https://www.denfordata.com/downloads/for ... 0scans.pdf
Edit:- some have a third screw in the end.
They should drop out with a bit of jiggling, but if they are crudded up with dried oil/grease and swarf you may need to give it a soaking of solvent and a prod with a bit of wire to help free them. Once the plugs are withdrawn to the depth of the dovetail the two castings should separate.

Hope this helps.
Andy

Andy, thanks for your help on this. I had wondered whether the forum was active as there doesn't seem to be much activity here. Bit of a long shot I know, but do you have any spare parts or know where I could source them? In particular I am hoping to replace a very worn worm gear on the feed shaft.

Brian

[Pzy]

Hi Pzy,
Drawing ML100/500 shows this assembly - https://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=2986


Remove the 2 grub screws from the little 'wings' - then you should be able to see a plug in each; these have an angled end to engage on the dovetail.
Edit - according to the drawings (ML100/507 & ML100/507A), the plugs are steel - https://www.denfordata.com/downloads/for ... 0scans.pdf
Edit:- some have a third screw in the end.
They should drop out with a bit of jiggling, but if they are crudded up with dried oil/grease and swarf you may need to give it a soaking of solvent and a prod with a bit of wire to help free them. Once the plugs are withdrawn to the depth of the dovetail the two castings should separate.

Hope this helps.
Andy

Back again, Andy.

I've tried soaking and jiggling. The plugs are moving but not falling out. Quite frustrating really. There's no chance of getting wire around them.

I tried plan B which involved some compressed air blown into the centre. I had air visibly bubble around the plugs but they stayed put.

I'm now hoping for a plan C.

[Andy B]

Hi Brian,
Sorry to hear the plugs are resisting your attempts to extract them.
Possibly they've had a bit of abuse previously and the ends have got a bit chewed.
The only other suggestion I can think of at present would be to superglue a strong magnet to the end of a plastic or wooden dowel and see if that has enough grip to twist / jiggle them further out.

As for spares - either a machine being parted-out on ebay / Gumtree, or I've heard good reports about John Ward - https://www.latheparts.co.uk/ - we should be able to provide the drawings for almost any part you need for him to manufacture from. If it is not yet posted somewhere on this forum I may have it yet to be scanned.

This forum has seen less activity recently - possibly as a lot of stuff has already been posted in which people find the answers they need?
Maybe you can kick-start some activity by posting a few pictures of your repairs / renovations?

Andy

[Pzy]

Hi Brian,
Sorry to hear the plugs are resisting your attempts to extract them.
Possibly they've had a bit of abuse previously and the ends have got a bit chewed.
The only other suggestion I can think of at present would be to superglue a strong magnet to the end of a plastic or wooden dowel and see if that has enough grip to twist / jiggle them further out.

As for spares - either a machine being parted-out on ebay / Gumtree, or I've heard good reports about John Ward - https://www.latheparts.co.uk/ - we should be able to provide the drawings for almost any part you need for him to manufacture from. If it is not yet posted somewhere on this forum I may have it yet to be scanned.

This forum has seen less activity recently - possibly as a lot of stuff has already been posted in which people find the answers they need?
Maybe you can kick-start some activity by posting a few pictures of your repairs / renovations?

Andy

Andy,

Magnets were in fact my undocumented plan AB which I have already tried. Having said that, the magnet I tried was not particularly strong and if I can find something stronger (and small enough) I may give it a go.

I can think of other more potentially destructive ways to remove the plugs involving drilling which I'd rather not use.

I have wondered about using some form of contact adhesive but I doubt the surfaces would be clean enough and I don't want to foul up the thread with any adhesive.

I may just have a couple more goes before I accept defeat. My aim was a complete strip down for cleaning and painting but if that's not possible then it's not the end of the world. It's not intended to make this a thing of beauty to be admired (I have seen a few of those posted online) but I like a clean and functional machine.

I have tried to contact John Ward a couple of times in the past and once again earlier today and never received a reply. Maybe he is too busy or no longer provides this service.

Brian

[Pete.]

Those slugs will come out. I had a similar lathe and they were stuck pretty well in there with fine swarf dust and old grease. Run some penetrating oil/brake cleaner in the holes and let it soak a while (like you have done). Then lift on the compound slide base whilst hitting all around with a small plastic hammer. the tapping will shock the slugs into moving Don't use a steel hammer as it''ll damage the slides. Since you've got a good gap they have already moved - tap them back in with a soft drift like a piece of ally or brass rod, soak again and repeat. I think it took me half an hour to get mine off. Looks like you are a good half way there going by the gap. In fact given the gap you have achieved I'd get a flat-bladed pry bar in the gap with some ally sheet protection and gently push down on the pry bar to lever the tip upwards and keep tapping and turning the swivel. You'll have it off in no time. Always use some soft scrap to protct the scraped face and it you do raise a burr on it stone it down gently when you re-assemble. You'll know if you've done harm as it'll feel 'scratchy' when you put it back together.

[Pzy]

Those slugs will come out. I had a similar lathe and they were stuck pretty well in there with fine swarf dust and old grease. Run some penetrating oil/brake cleaner in the holes and let it soak a while (like you have done). Then lift on the compound slide base whilst hitting all around with a small plastic hammer. the tapping will shock the slugs into moving Don't use a steel hammer as it''ll damage the slides. Since you've got a good gap they have already moved - tap them back in with a soft drift like a piece of ally or brass rod, soak again and repeat. I think it took me half an hour to get mine off. Looks like you are a good half way there going by the gap. In fact given the gap you have achieved I'd get a flat-bladed pry bar in the gap with some ally sheet protection and gently push down on the pry bar to lever the tip upwards and keep tapping and turning the swivel. You'll have it off in no time. Always use some soft scrap to protct the scraped face and it you do raise a burr on it stone it down gently when you re-assemble. You'll know if you've done harm as it'll feel 'scratchy' when you put it back together.

Thanks for your suggestions, Pete.

You must have posted your message while I was in my workshop and finally managed to remove the swivel using a technique very much like you suggested. No damage was inflicted during disassembly and the parts are now stripped down and ready to paint.

When I looked at the plans that Andy had very helpfully posted / linked to earlier I realised it was just a matter of pulling the swivel upwards and this should push those slugs outwards. They didn't need to come out fully but just enough to lift the swivel free. In fact, to remove them I pushed them inwards after the swivel had been freed.

I have some photos in case they are needed for anyone else considering the same task.

Once again, thank you Pete and Andy.