Tool does not go into spindle?? help!!!!!!!!!

-=PAB=- · Post by **-=PAB=-** » Mon 17 Jul , 2006 21:37 pm

how do i fix this problem- the tool sits to far out of the spindle for the drawbar to clamp the pull stud!!!

i've heard it may have something to do with the collet coming down the draw bar but how do i fix this??

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Mon 17 Jul , 2006 23:10 pm

Hiya, You have not said what machine you have & if it has a automatic toolchanger.

Does the collet have a Number on it?

-=PAB=- · Post by **-=PAB=-** » Mon 17 Jul , 2006 23:17 pm

it is a 1990 triac atc - cant see a collett. BT35 spindle taper.

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Mon 17 Jul , 2006 23:20 pm

It may be something as simple as the pnuematic pressure to the cylinder or the oil level insider the cylinder.

The air pressure needs to be between 80-100psi depending on when the machine was built. I would suggest that you set it at 100psi.

The oil level in the cylinder is a bit more tricky, but a easier way to alter it is to wind the cylinder down further. There will be locking ring on the lower thread on the unit. If you release it you can then wind the Brower unit down. Take care to check that when finished the bottom of the unit does not touch the top of the draw bar with both the tool in/out.

Good Luck

Martin

-=PAB=- · Post by **-=PAB=-** » Mon 17 Jul , 2006 23:25 pm

have tried both those thing - neither works..?

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Mon 17 Jul , 2006 23:25 pm

I guess your Triac will have a V slot on the bottom of the cylinder & a V on the top of the draw bar.

It uses the V to line up exactly.
It is more likely that the V on the top of the draw bar is worn.

I would imagine that srewing the cylinder down will fix your problem.

-=PAB=- · Post by **-=PAB=-** » Mon 17 Jul , 2006 23:27 pm

yes i wound it down as far as possible while still allowing drawbar to turn- but does not allow tool to go far enough into spindle...?

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Mon 17 Jul , 2006 23:33 pm

Hiya Pab.

It sounds like the stoke of the cylinder is too short.
You will need to check the level of oil inside the brower unit.

In order to look you need to remove the top silver cap off the unit. There is a area just below where the air pipe plugs in that you can get a spanner on & unscrew it.
Inside you can then remove the pluger.
You will then see a hole about 12mm dia.
The oil should be to the top of this.

It is normally a thicker oil in there. Not sure on the spec though.

Mr Magoo · Post by **Mr Magoo** » Tue 18 Jul , 2006 0:54 am

Hi Martin / PAB

PAB, can you confirm that your problem is that the tool isn't being held firmly in the spindle when the drawbar is clamping the tool

I think that Martin thinks your problem is that the tool isn't being released whenthe drawbar is trying to release the tool

If the former is the case then I do not think the problem is related to the hydro-pneumatic intensifier (Brower unit), but instead is related either...

The Belville spring washers inside the spindle not doing their job (either becuase they've lost their springiness, or the spring tensioning nut thingy has come loose)
The collet at the bottom of the brawbar mechanism has come loose
Was there an 'ejector screw' inside the collet to make sure the tool broke away from the spindle taper when the drawbar extended? And could this ejector screw have come loose and be protruding too far? Try shining a torch up the spindle and if you can see a cap-head or similar up the spout (not sure if the Triac had this ejector screw fitted?), see if it is loose or try screwing it in a little.

What do you think Martin

Us software guys never did get a grasp of this mechanical terminology stuff

-=PAB=- · Post by **-=PAB=-** » Tue 18 Jul , 2006 13:19 pm

it is not holding the tool at all

- the tool will not go up into the spindle enough- inside the spindle there is a ring with ball bearings in- i think this holds the pull stud- but i think it is stoping the tool going in.

Mr Magoo · Post by **Mr Magoo** » Wed 19 Jul , 2006 12:17 pm

I was wrong (and Martin was right

)

The problem does appear to be that the drawbar isn't moving down far enough to allow the ball bearings to open up (enough to allow the pull stud to be pushed up past the balls).

It's getting as bit too mechanical for me so I'm going to pass it back to Maritn.

Just a thought, If the machine has been sat for some time without use, you may want to check that the balls haven't just got themselves 'stuck' inside the collet arrangement in the spindle (I'm sure I've seen this before when a machine has been sat for a long time without a tool in the spindle).
With the drawbar unclamped (air applied to the air intensifier so the drawbar is in it's "down" position) you should be able to poke about with soemthing like a long screwdrvier inside the spindle and all the balls should be free to wiggle about. They should push back far enough to let the pull-stud pass them, ready to be clamped. If any of the balls aren't free, try pushing them back to free them if they are stuck. If they are free then I'm pretty sure the problem relates to the drawbar not extending far enough when in it's Uncalmped position
Remember I'm no mechanic, but it's worth a try

-=PAB=- · Post by **-=PAB=-** » Wed 19 Jul , 2006 23:12 pm

its deffinetly not the drawbar- i put a piece of metal between the brower unit and the top of the drawbar so it goes down much further than before but still does not allow the tool to get past the collet and ball bearings. the ball bearings are not stuck.. i think it may be the collet itself has pushed up inside the spindle some how and it is not coming down far enough. how can i pull the collet down the spindle????

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Fri 21 Jul , 2006 20:11 pm

Hi Pab,

It sounds like you now need to strip the spindle down to investigate further.
To do this you need to remove the brower unit from the top of the spindle. You will then see a nut/collar inside the top of the spindle which you need to unsrew. There may be a grub screw locking it in position. Below this a further nut that needs to be unscrewed as well. Once this is out the draw bar will then push out. Inside the cylinder there will be a nuber of belvil washer. If you remove them you need to keep a note of how they were fitted as these act as the springs.

Hopefully you will find a problem.

To refit you need to follow the above in reverse. The lower nut needs to be screwed in till it is 11mm below the top of the shaft. The top nut then sits flush with the top.

Good luck.

Triac whizz · Post by **Triac whizz** » Sat 22 Jul , 2006 12:51 pm

Just thought I'd put my tuppence worth in

Not knowing the history of the machine, I don't know if it's relevant but anyway, Is there a sheared off pull stud stuck up the hole?

Are you really trying to fit a BT35 tool in the hole & not a BT30? or something else? and the drive cut out aligned?

Don't take this the wrong way, occasionally its something this silly

-=PAB=- · Post by **-=PAB=-** » Sun 23 Jul , 2006 10:24 am

there is no broken pull stud in spindle - i have looked..

the triac atc is BT35

maybe i have a broken washer????

Triac whizz · Post by **Triac whizz** » Sun 23 Jul , 2006 13:05 pm

Hmm.

Have you ever had a tool locked in the spindle? I ask because perhaps the pull stud is not correct...

Have you checked that the locking device is actually moving down when you activate the ram?

It strikes me that if you had broken belville washers the tool would go in and not lock properly, weak washers - I doubt it, my experience with these washers in press tools is that they just break when they've had enough!

Other than that I agree with martin - bite the bullet and take it to bits

Let us know what it was

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon 24 Jul , 2006 17:37 pm

I will ask one of the fitters who builds the machines now and see what he thinks.

I guess you are using a tool holder that you have previously been able to fit?

If so the bearing that pull the stud up are not being compressed or are stuck in position I think!

-=PAB=- · Post by **-=PAB=-** » Mon 24 Jul , 2006 22:59 pm

i have taken it to pieces and am left now with just the spindle, draw bar - i cant seem to remove the drawbar(i have loosened the cap head in the spindle) or see how i can alter the collet posistion- i also cant get into the brower unit to see if the washers are ok?

Mr Magoo · Post by **Mr Magoo** » Tue 01 Aug , 2006 23:27 pm

Hi PAB...

Did you manage to fix the problem?

FYI, the belville washers are in the spindle itself (not the brower unit)
The drawbar can be removed by unscrewing the round "nut" in the centre of the top of the spindle assembly. The nut is arround the spike that the brower unit hits when the drawbar is unclamped and is round, not hexagonal. It has two small holes in it to allow a special tool to be used to unscrew it.

Make a note of the distance between the top of the spike and the nut before you start to remove it as it is this nut that is compressing the spring washes and so setting the drawbars holding tension. This also means that it can be difficult to remove the nut as it is under tension from the springs inside the spindle.

When the nut is removed, the drawbar will literally drop out of the spindle!

Maybe it's just this nut that needs adjusting, as it also determines how far the drawbar will move then it is asked to unclamp???

-=PAB=- · Post by **-=PAB=-** » Sat 05 Aug , 2006 18:41 pm

fixed it- drawbar had slot broken away where the dowel pin locates milled a slot 180 degrees and re-inserted - works perfect now..

Denford Software & Machines

Denford Software & Machines

Tool does not go into spindle?? help!!!!!!!!!

Tool does not go into spindle?? help!!!!!!!!!

Triac Drawbar