Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

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amaxlegend
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Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Thu 20 May , 2021 0:56 am

I have had the Triac PC for at least 10 yrs helping me to build Loco bits and bobs.
The spindle speed is now varying by its self.
I was advised that it may be a capacitor on the spindle control board was going bad .
I replaced all the capacitors on the board ( the round can type ones )

This didnt cure the problem

Does any one have a solution or idea where to go next .
regards Alex

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Steve
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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by Steve » Thu 20 May , 2021 5:53 am

Measure the 0-10V DC analog input to the spindle drive.

It should be 10V at max speed. 5V at half speed. Is this voltage going up and down or stable?

Next measure the DC motor voltage going to the motor is this going up and down?

It could be motor brushes or the motor tachometer

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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by Martin » Thu 20 May , 2021 8:18 am

What is the requested spindle speed?

amaxlegend
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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Thu 20 May , 2021 23:46 pm

Steve wrote:
Thu 20 May , 2021 5:53 am
Measure the 0-10V DC analog input to the spindle drive.

It should be 10V at max speed. 5V at half speed. Is this voltage going up and down or stable?

Next measure the DC motor voltage going to the motor is this going up and down?

It could be motor brushes or the motor tachometer
Thank for your reply
I have taken the cover off the spindle motor
not sure what wires do

they are marked from top t1 then t2 then k1 then k2 then a1 and the bottom one a2
t1= blue (thin) t2 red (thin) K1 Blue (thin) K2 (thin) a1 blue (thick) a2 Brown (thick)

measured a1 and a2 @250rpm 61-62vdc (varies) then @4000rpm 70-73vdc (varies) seems really high.

as I increase the speed to 4000rpm it doesnt seem like it is going at 4000 rpm seems much slower
and varies. If it was a petrol engine I would say "its hunting " so to speak.

not sure if I have got the correct wires to test but as the a1 and a2 are much thicker thought they may be +and - , just guessing as I dont have a diagram .

any help would be greatly recieved.
Alex

amaxlegend
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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Thu 20 May , 2021 23:56 pm

Martin wrote:
Thu 20 May , 2021 8:18 am
What is the requested spindle speed?
Using the software Vr milling, it varies at all selected speeds with the slider, when in jogging mode.

any help would be great I just dont know where to start , now that I replaced all the metal little round capacitors with the correct values on the spindle controller board.
had a look at the 4 motor brushes and they seem ok as do the 4 tac ones there wasnt any black stuff floating around and everything looks clean, the bearings look good as well.
regards Alex

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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by Steve » Fri 21 May , 2021 8:02 am

Can you make the voltage measurements on the spindle drive and report?

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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by Martin » Fri 21 May , 2021 10:21 am

You could try adjusting the Stability pot on the Sprint 1200 spindle drive.

amaxlegend
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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Fri 21 May , 2021 11:01 am

Do you know which pair does what, and what the voltage should be ?
Attachments
denford driver pic1.jpg
denford driver pic1.jpg (596.02 KiB) Viewed 1760 times
denford driver pic2.jpg
denford driver pic2.jpg (563.93 KiB) Viewed 1760 times
denford drive motor.jpg
denford drive motor.jpg (186.23 KiB) Viewed 1760 times

amaxlegend
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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Fri 21 May , 2021 11:34 am

Steve wrote:
Thu 20 May , 2021 5:53 am
Measure the 0-10V DC analog input to the spindle drive.

It should be 10V at max speed. 5V at half speed. Is this voltage going up and down or stable?

Next measure the DC motor voltage going to the motor is this going up and down?

It could be motor brushes or the motor tachometer
do you have a diagram to pinpoint the position of the 0-10v dc analog input to the spindle drive. etc, as Im working in the dark on your suggestions, its like , I know that you can get a bus into town, but need to know where the bus stop is located and what number is on the bus , otherwise if I jump on the first bus that comes along, it could take me anywhere lol.
I'm at the passenger level not the bus driver , who knows his route lol

I appreciate your help enormously
Alex

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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by TDIPower » Fri 21 May , 2021 13:21 pm

Not sure if this will help but I uploaded the drawings for a sprint controller, may not be the same though viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4778

Pete

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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by Steve » Fri 21 May , 2021 13:34 pm

Please send a larger picture of the spindle drive.

Download electrical diagrams
file:///C:/Users/soddy/Downloads/TriacPC-Electrical-Drawings.pdf
View page 36
Wires 54 and 55 are the analogue
spin drive.JPG
spin drive.JPG (46.2 KiB) Viewed 1755 times
Wires 17 and 19 look like the motor DC

amaxlegend
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri 07 May , 2021 20:48 pm
Hardware/Software: Triac PC mill / Vr Milling v2.38

Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Fri 21 May , 2021 18:24 pm

The voltage on those Pins at 250 (slowest speed ) is 4.6 -4.78 DC , fluctuates
the voltage on the pins at 4000 (highest speed ) is 6.7 - 7.32 DC , fluctuates

It doesnt get near to 10vdc on full speed

wonder why that is ?
regards Alex

amaxlegend
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Joined: Fri 07 May , 2021 20:48 pm
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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Fri 21 May , 2021 18:26 pm

TDIPower wrote:
Fri 21 May , 2021 13:21 pm
Not sure if this will help but I uploaded the drawings for a sprint controller, may not be the same though viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4778

Pete
Thanks Pete but I dont have the wire/ volt settings to see if they are similar , but will have a look at yours
Many thanks Alex

amaxlegend
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Joined: Fri 07 May , 2021 20:48 pm
Hardware/Software: Triac PC mill / Vr Milling v2.38

Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Fri 21 May , 2021 18:35 pm

Steve wrote:
Fri 21 May , 2021 13:34 pm
Please send a larger picture of the spindle drive.

Download electrical diagrams
file:///C:/Users/soddy/Downloads/TriacPC-Electrical-Drawings.pdf
View page 36
Wires 54 and 55 are the analogue

spin drive.JPG

Wires 17 and 19 look like the motor DC
amaxlegend wrote:
Fri 21 May , 2021 18:24 pm
The voltage on those Pins 54 (-) and 55 (+) at 250 (slowest speed ) is 4.6 -4.78 DC , fluctuates
the voltage on the pins at 4000 (highest speed ) is 6.7 - 7.32 DC , fluctuates

It doesnt get near to 10vdc on full speed

wonder why that is ?
regards Alex

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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by Steve » Fri 21 May , 2021 19:10 pm

Can you supply photos of the inside of the electrical cabinet It sounds like the spindle analog card has failed.

amaxlegend
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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Fri 21 May , 2021 20:02 pm

Steve wrote:
Fri 21 May , 2021 19:10 pm
Can you supply photos of the inside of the electrical cabinet It sounds like the spindle analog card has failed.
inside case and board pics for triac
Attachments
spin drive.JPG
spin drive.JPG (46.17 KiB) Viewed 1747 times
b1 denford.jpg
b1 denford.jpg (381.58 KiB) Viewed 1747 times
b2 denford.jpg
b2 denford.jpg (973.98 KiB) Viewed 1747 times
b3 denford.jpg
b3 denford.jpg (889.01 KiB) Viewed 1747 times
b4 denford.jpg
b4 denford.jpg (860.64 KiB) Viewed 1747 times
b5 denford case.jpg
b5 denford case.jpg (955.53 KiB) Viewed 1747 times
b6 denford case.jpg
b6 denford case.jpg (809.95 KiB) Viewed 1747 times
b7 denford case.jpg
b7 denford case.jpg (863.08 KiB) Viewed 1747 times
b8 denford case.jpg
b8 denford case.jpg (863.08 KiB) Viewed 1747 times
case denford.jpg
case denford.jpg (977.36 KiB) Viewed 1747 times
triac spindle.jpg
triac spindle.jpg (948.41 KiB) Viewed 1747 times

amaxlegend
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri 07 May , 2021 20:48 pm
Hardware/Software: Triac PC mill / Vr Milling v2.38

Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Fri 21 May , 2021 20:17 pm

Martin wrote:
Fri 21 May , 2021 10:21 am
You could try adjusting the Stability pot on the Sprint 1200 spindle drive.
ok will try this over the weekend
regards
Alex

amaxlegend
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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Sat 22 May , 2021 11:42 am

Steve wrote:
Fri 21 May , 2021 19:10 pm
Can you supply photos of the inside of the electrical cabinet It sounds like the spindle analog card has failed.
Hi Steve whats the solution . is there a replacement available or can you replace a component ie what needs fixing or replacing

Do you have the wiring diagram for this machine that you can send me.
regards Alex

amaxlegend
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Joined: Fri 07 May , 2021 20:48 pm
Hardware/Software: Triac PC mill / Vr Milling v2.38

Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by amaxlegend » Sat 22 May , 2021 11:47 am

Steve wrote:
Fri 21 May , 2021 13:34 pm
Please send a larger picture of the spindle drive.

Download electrical diagrams
file:///C:/Users/soddy/Downloads/TriacPC-Electrical-Drawings.pdf
View page 36
Wires 54 and 55 are the analogue

spin drive.JPG

Wires 17 and 19 look like the motor DC
Hi Steve cant realy read this as its a bit blurred any chance you could send me the pdf for the Triac as it would be useful to have. do you have any other documentation on the triac
regards Alex

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Re: Triac PC spindle motor speed varies by its self

Post by TDIPower » Sun 23 May , 2021 14:49 pm

You should be able to prove if its the sprint by disconnecting the 0-10v from the denford control and just wiring a pot as per the diagram for the sprint I pointed you to. that way you can manually alter the speed and see if it stays stable or hunts. If it is fine then it points to the problem being from the denford 0-10v. At least that way you know where to look.

Pete

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