New Owner / Introduction

All info relating to the Denford MicroRouter Compact small routing machines

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westcoastkevin
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New Owner / Introduction

Post by westcoastkevin » Thu 31 Aug , 2017 21:18 pm

Hello,
My name is Kevin.
I just got a Microrouter Compact that was built in 2004. It came out of a school.
I just got the machine standalone, no extra computer or software media or cables.
I was told they never set it up. (whatever that means, I am not sure)

I would like to learn about these and figure out the best way forward.
1. I would think I need to inspect it first before much else. What should I look for?
2. I have the supplies to make up and test a serial cable so I am not worried about that.
3. I will need software though? On a machine this old, should I try to locate the old Denford software, or look to converting it to something else if the mechanicals are good.

Myself, I have worked in CADCAM software and machining for more than 20 years. I know absolutely nothing about this little unit though.

How should I start?.
Last edited by westcoastkevin on Sat 02 Sep , 2017 0:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by TDIPower » Thu 31 Aug , 2017 22:08 pm

Hi, best thing is to post up either the data or a pic of the machine plate (label on the side with info on) next remove the rear cover, grab a pic of the control boards, specifically look for a 32 pin chip about 35mm (1" 1/2) x 12mm (1/2") which should have a label on it with something like v2.2 on it (poss other info), also when powered up what colour is the 7 segment display (LED display in a fig 8). that tells us what control boards it has and software version on board.

Once you know what is on board you can find out what software you need to control it.

Software isn't cheep, BUT the denford stuff is quite easy to get your head round and you can do a lot with it. to control the machine you will need either VR2 or VR5. If VR5 will work with your machine that's is the best option. As for producing code to machine. I have just moved to Fusion 360 which is very powerful and has denford machines in its database for G code.

Pete

westcoastkevin
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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by westcoastkevin » Fri 01 Sep , 2017 16:03 pm

TDIPower,
Thank you for the reply,
Here is the plate.
I will get the cover off and get the rest tonight or tomorrow and post it here.
Attachments
Denford_Router_Plate.png
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westcoastkevin
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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by westcoastkevin » Sat 02 Sep , 2017 0:11 am

I got the cover off and powered it up.
The front door interlock seems to be engaged also. Having read the manual, I will pop off the bottom cover and release it manually for now.

There is a label beside the Segment LED.
EB043100 Rev. F

The seven segment display is GREEN.
When I power it up this is what happens on the display.

1. It shows a Solid 8
2. Then the Middle Horizontal segment lights solid with the Dot Flashing
3. Finally it It displays a SOLID 2 (Not Flashing). The dot at the lower right of the segment display is NOT ILLUMINATED

This is everything I know at the moment.

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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by TDIPower » Sat 02 Sep , 2017 22:53 pm

From your info, you need to get VR5 to control the machine.
You will need some form of CAD software that you can export in DXF if you are doing 2.5D machining, several paths at different depths or 2D different paths and same depth. If you want to do full 3D profiles you need a program you can export STL files from or a program (like Fusion 360) that will allow you to post process within it. If you use a program that can export STL files you can get Denfords Quick Cam which is a very good post processor (takes the STL file, lets you set tooling info, select machining plans then create the G code) Another post processor I have worked with is Deskproto, they do include denford in the machine lists but I have never used it with a denford machine.

Hope that helps

Pete

westcoastkevin
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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by westcoastkevin » Mon 04 Sep , 2017 2:56 am

Pete,
Reading the manual left me unclear about the expected starting state of the LED. Should I understand that it all looks normal so far?
As you might imagine, I would hate to buy software for a 13 yr old unit and find a hardware problem (when I could have bought new electronics for about the same money.)

Is there any way to get a trial version of the software or anything just to "confirm" that the machine is in operating condition?

Thanks for the help so far.

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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by TDIPower » Mon 04 Sep , 2017 19:02 pm

Not aware of a trial version. As for the sequence on the LED display. Ill flip the panel off ours in work tomorrow and fire it up. Ours is the Microrouter Pro but I think the board is the same.

I found this if it helps. Someone was having issues with a machine

"Does your board have a USB communication port?

You may need to try and connect the card to the computer to get the display to read correctly.

Where did the new card come from? What machine was it previously fitted in as it may need to have firmware updated

What colour is the 7 segment display? If its Red then its a Denstep control Card. If Green or yellow a nextstep.

stuff/NextStepLEDSWEB.htm

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3167&p=16305&hilit ... ent#p16305"

Do you have the 23 way RS232 connector on the side of the cabinet or the USB? If the RS232 you may find it has a USB on the board just below the LED display.



You really need someone like Martin to come along and comment on that side.

Pete

westcoastkevin
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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by westcoastkevin » Tue 05 Sep , 2017 19:49 pm

Here are a few pictures of the Cabinet, just so you can be clear about what I have.
Attachments
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20170901_191353.jpg
20170901_191353.jpg (151.67 KiB) Viewed 18185 times

westcoastkevin
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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by westcoastkevin » Tue 05 Sep , 2017 20:11 pm

I have been studying the cabinet and comparing it to the wiring diagrams.
Where I can I am checking for voltages to get a sense of everything being as it should.

I noticed this.
On the TB10 block, The wires for the 5V Speed Pot are not where the drawing says they should be.
Please see the two pictures below. The snippet from the wiring diagram came from the diagrams linked here on the forum.
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3024

On the TB11 block, the 24V AC wires for the ESR Relay are reversed on the board from the wiring diagram too. I am not sure if this matters or not.

Does yours match the drawing of the Cabinet?

I am not changing anything at the moment, just looking it over to understand the layout and where everything is while I figure out the software situation.
I really just need to borrow VR milling for an evening to be sure the machine works. If it does, I can just buy it.
Attachments
SpeedPotPNG.png
SpeedPotPNG.png (787.67 KiB) Viewed 18184 times
SpeedPotPDF.png
SpeedPotPDF.png (32.6 KiB) Viewed 18184 times

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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by TDIPower » Tue 05 Sep , 2017 22:24 pm

looking at the section on the wiring. its not that the wire is in the wrong place, the blue wire has 30 tagged on it as per the diagram. it looks more like the gnd wire to the speed pot has not been fitted back to the board. it may well be that the gnd has been picked up off another point. it would be worth looking at the pot itself to confirm this.

you have the rs232 version so you will need with an rs232 port, for the wiring of the lead

This SHOULD work.. 9 way is the computer, 25 way microrouter

9 Way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>25 way
link pin 7 to pin 8 >>>>>>>>>> no connection (have in all test conditions)
pin 5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin 7 (ground) (have in all test conditions)
pin 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin 3, (Data)
pin 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin 2 (Data)

If that doesn't work link swap the Data lines to
pin 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin 2
pin 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pin3

If that doesn't work try addingthe following links then try the data connection in both ways as above
9 way
Link pins 1 - 4 - 6 to each other.

westcoastkevin
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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by westcoastkevin » Wed 06 Sep , 2017 0:43 am

TDIPower wrote:looking at the section on the wiring. its not that the wire is in the wrong place, the blue wire has 30 tagged on it as per the diagram. it looks more like the gnd wire to the speed pot has not been fitted back to the board. it may well be that the gnd has been picked up off another point. it would be worth looking at the pot itself to confirm this.
You know, I was thinking the same thing after the fact. Out of curiosity I checked the voltage at the pot itself and I have the 5V. I will call that good then.

I will look at the serial cable next.

westcoastkevin
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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by westcoastkevin » Wed 06 Sep , 2017 4:06 am

I made up a serial cable tonight.

I followed the PDF from this thread
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2351&hilit=machine+Link
The PDF: download/file.php?id=1263
I even went back and double checked the pinouts for continuity afterward. (That surely is the kiss of death)
I have a laptop with a serial port. (I will start with that before going to USB to serial adapters)

Next, I will go back and study the circuits for the E-Stop relay and door interlock and spindle. Even though I did the bypass for the door interlock so I could get inside, I am not sure why I needed to.
I would have "expected" the door to be unlocked upon powering up, but it was locked. So I have a little study to do there.

I still do not know what the number 2 means on the LED display.

Other than those two things, I think I am ready to connect it to a PC. There must be a seat of VR Milling V2.XX out there in need of a home after a machine was scrapped or converted to Mach or something else. (Reading on the forums suggests that it would be a major performance boost to convert to mach with a more modern board but I would really like to know for the peace of mind if the hardware will run the way it is.)

Thanks again for the help so far.
Kevin

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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by TDIPower » Wed 06 Sep , 2017 22:19 pm

Trust me on the wiring for the RS232... I have spent/wasted/cried over a lot of time on it with various denford machines and all the various pinouts that have been posted on here! Feel free to look back through all the post I've done over the last couple of years.

If you look at the 25pin RS232 in the microrouter you will find you only have 3 wires to it from the control board. TX Data, RX Data and Ground. That is all that is needed to make the machine work. however the Computer needs some other links hence the link wires in the 9 way. Hence the pin out I gave, the only thing is ensuring the TX/RX data lines are talking so if it doesn't work you try swapping that.

Re the computer, running VR2 I was using 2ghz P4s when we got our machines in the early 2000s, just remember the age of the machines and the specs of PCs of the day. Going down the route of RS232/USB adapters can be a headache, I know I've been there too!! You will find most PCs even if they don't have an RS232 on the back have a connector on the motherboard so you just need the breakout lead from that to a rear case 9 way.

I run VR5 on some old Dell machines in work now with Windows 7. Somewhere on the here or the denford site there is a list of what operating systems will work with V2/5.

Pete

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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by TDIPower » Wed 06 Sep , 2017 22:23 pm

Re the no 2 on the display, did you not take a look at this link? stuff/NextStepLEDSWEB.htm

depending on when No2 is on the display it can mean 1 of 3 things. Given yours is on the display whilst powered up it looks to me that it is normal.

westcoastkevin
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Joined: Thu 31 Aug , 2017 21:05 pm
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Post by westcoastkevin » Thu 07 Sep , 2017 18:00 pm

Duplicate Post
Last edited by westcoastkevin on Thu 07 Sep , 2017 19:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

westcoastkevin
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Joined: Thu 31 Aug , 2017 21:05 pm
Hardware/Software: MicroRouter

Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by westcoastkevin » Thu 07 Sep , 2017 19:13 pm

Pete,
Thanks for everything.
I did see that document with the LED diagnostic codes but I misread it somehow.

Current State of affairs:
1. I have a PC ready to go with a serial port.
2. I will change the RS232 cable as needed once I connect up to the VR Milling software. (I used to provide some support to industrial CNCs with serial comms so I have my own memories of nightmares where they do not match the spec)
3. I got my door interlock sorted. It was just a bit stuck. It operates correctly now.

I am getting pricing now for the VR Milling package. I will not know much more until I get that software in hand.

So far so good.

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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by Martin » Thu 07 Sep , 2017 20:30 pm

It all looks good to me.

As Pete says we quite often pick commons up from different point.

You can connect to the NextStep card using Denford EasyUpgrader which will allow you to check the firmware & update it if required. http://www.denfordata.com/downloads/eas ... 1-9-cd.zip

As long as the LED is lit it should be fine.

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Re: New Owner / Introduction

Post by TDIPower » Thu 07 Sep , 2017 21:56 pm

Wondered when you would pop in Martin :) Cheers for filling in the gaps I'm still learning! I've never used the easy upgrader so that's cool to know you can check stuff out. I might give it a wiz in work to see what it's like.

Hope that gets you on the road Kevin

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