mint card

[Denford Admin]

I'm certain we dont have anything here - have you tried Arcom though ?
I think they are still in business: http://www.eurotech-ltd.co.uk/en/

Although I've never seen this system, I would guess you'd just have to swap the EPROM to a new board (if you can get one)

[harcol]

when i power the machine up with the ste card disconnected i get up to the message that says the mint card is disconnected

when the ste card is connected i get nothing on the screen and the red small led light underneath the computer board in the back of the machine goes off.
i still have no `L` lighting up on the LED on the backplane

not sure whether anyone is still listening, not really getting anywhere

wished i`d bought a fanuc version at least you can fix em !!!
HELP !!

[Denford Admin]

Sorry but I've never seen this system and know nothing of its history - it 's to a rare setup even then.
You need to look at the problem logically - no one else is going to be able to tell you exactly what you need to do to fix it. All we can do is help with the system basics and any old info we may still have

The message probably indicates that the STE mint board is not booting up - it could be that the EPROM has degenerated, or something has corroded or it isn't getting a logic supply voltage - all these things you can check with a bit of guesswork and investigation.
(eg, look at the board for things like TP (test point), pwr,gnd ,+5V, 0v and tag some wires on them to see if the board is getting a supply.)
Take the EPROM out and re-seat it, spray the contacts with switch cleaner etc....

You posted a photo of an ARCOM MotionSystem card with what looks like a Baldor mint EPROM on it.
I'm guessing that Baldor used to use ARCOM boards with their own firmware on until they had developed their own.
You have tried BALDOR and didn't get anywhere, so have you tried ARCOM ?

[black5f]

Hi. I have some experience with the older Baldor cards. I think this though pre dates even the Eurostepper Card. What exactly is written on the eprom? This will help me identify what it is. If it's a eurostepper, here is the reference manual, ignore the programming stuff, but shows the layout and all the connections.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tombayes/p ... urosystem/

I've put it privately on my webspace in case it's copyright violation. It's free on the Baldor site you just have to register.
Anyway, dont panic, they are very reliable in general, I have used a Euroserver and eurosystem card for the last 20 years, in my garage, unheated so they've been frozen , baked, attacked by mice etc.
Some of the components do have a life limit. Was there any smoke, wiff? On the euro cards you should get an "8" on the LED if all OK? L is a limit switch activated. You should check all connections, make sure there is power. No 1. problem source is the power supply to the card, is it working? If all the periferals check out, that means limits correct, power there. Lots of checks with a multimeter! If all seems good, the biggest suspect is the capacitors, the little brown ceramic lumps and the blue bulbouse things. They can go opencircuit with age. The little brown ones are just decoupling caps and are there to get rid of interference. If they go O/s, they will connect the signal line they protect to ground = not good. They can easily be replaced with the nearest value (desolder them and test). One of mine got hot and burst, I robbed another off an old network card and it sprung into life. Generally speaking, they can be made to work as long as no further damage is caused. Please let me know whats on the eprom. The battery will be had it. This only affects the actual mint program stored, if there is one? If the eprom is a mint328 type, there is no program, the commands are drip fed from the host pc. If it's not, the program is stored on the eprom, it's like a basic program in syntax, that, well, does stuff, will very likely be gone. Tom

[black5f]

Studying earlier posts! By the config file it's a servo system, they are MINT servo commands. Installs RS232 driver, tries to communitcate.... fails. I need to know if the card is alive as this could very simply be a rs232 problem? lead, hardware?
What do you normally get on the LED when you boot up? ALl OK = 8 L= your on a limit?
There is a hint in the posts of a file called "drip feed". It's not exactly the case ( there are other ways of doing this) but sounds like MINT328, this is a RS232 drip feed protocol that sends a command at a time to the controller, rather than down load an entire operation? This means battery is not needed (mine was disconnected and thrown away a long time ago.
Tom

[black5f]

Earlier link now points to the right reference manual! I think this is a Euroserver (ki, kv, kf and gain all MINT servo stuff) but on a custom card with an STE bus. Pin outs on the connector to the back plane are in the manual. The LED should light L or 8 (if not on a limit). Check all the power connections but the "following error" still makes me think capacitors reached end of life, easy change. The open circuit cap may have blown a fuse? Let me no how you get on?
Tom

[harcol]

HI THERE,

SORRY NOT BEEN BACK FOR A BIT,COULD NOT DOWNLOAD YOUR FILE HAVE HAD BOARD CHECKED OUT
STILL SAME ERROR ON SCREEN AS POSTED BEFORE IN PICTURES.
EPROM INFO IS 2.53d/STE-KC16-JD7

WE HAVE NOTHING ON THE STATUS LED , WE HAVE CHECKED THE POWER SUPPLY AND IS OK

WE HAVE TRIED THE BOARD IN THE SLOT TO THE LEFT , ALL OF THESE STILL COME BACK TO THE SAME ERROR

NOT SURE WHERE OR HOW TO CHECK RS232 PROBLEMS , WE REALLY COULD DO WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS THE KNOWLEDGE OF THESE MACHINES AND SOFTWARE AND WOULD BE PREPARED TO PAY FOR THIS.
I THINK IT MAY BE SOMETHING STUPID BUT WE ARE UNABLE TO GO FURTHER WITH IT EVEN THOUGH IT IS IN MINT CONDITION
AS I SAY IT NEEDS DENFORD KNOWLEDGE TO FIX IT

CAN ANYONE HELP !!!!

[Denford Admin]

I would guess that you should see something/anything on the red 7 segment LED when the machine is 1st powered up.
So I wouldn't worry about RS232 issues at this stage - It's hopefully something simple like a loose or removed connector or a hidden fuse etc...

I would be checking over everything connecting the CPU board to the backplane,
The ribbon cables between the boards and the backplane,
The supply voltages going to the backplane.

I'm not sure Denford could fix this issue as we have no information or spares for this type of control (that I'm aware of anyway)

[black5f]

Hi

I removed the file as the thread seemed dead. I put it back on:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tombayes/p ... oservo.pdf

Agree with Denford. Pretty sure this card should have all segments lit "8" if all OK. An "L" indicates it is on a limit switch but still OK. The pin outs are on page 453. These need checking to ensure that the voltage supplies are actually there, do this with the card out as if it's open circuit it's probably tripping it. They are the bottom 6 pins, also check the grounds.

If they are OK its definately the card.

Tom

[black5f]

Ok, you missed out the c3MINT bit, very important!
c3MINT2.53d/STE-KC16-JD7 means:
c3: three axis
MINT 2.53d is an early version of MINT with a bug fix (d) (NOT Mint 328 which is different, a drip feed from a PC)
STE: means it's an STE busd version
KC-16 means it's a non standard processor that usually isn't 16MHz, ie normally KC-12 this is odd!
JD7 is a non standard job code, ie job D7. You cannot down load these, just standard EPROM images but you have to scrounge around for (a) an an 80's eprom and (b) 80's tech EPROM burning stuff.

1. do not take off the sticker, sunlight can wipe them!

It's not a Euroerver, it would have /3 on the EPROM somewhere. I can see the expansion I/O card, a spindle card also and two servo axis off the STE.

It is very easy to talk to it! The DOS MINT package will do this and you can download it.
You can't talk to it if it's not powered up and all information so far says thats the problem.
There was a following error, encoder trouble = screen or power supply? (in general on 20 year old kit)
You need to make sure that the card has power. The connections of the pin outs are different from the Euroserver!
I have a Eurosystem rack but its disconnected, it should be the same though. I have a Euroserver rack in general use but dont fancy connecting +12V to the ground of it!
I would suggest posting the card to me BUT I believe it just doesnt have power, the LED is remote and the conections to the LED on the back plane also need checking.
These cards are reliable, my two versions are 19 and 24 years respectively and live in the garage summer / winter / floods and work faultlessly. Capacitors die, they are easy to replace, death usually accompanied by smoke and a bang and following errors as they are used mostly to filter interference.
Baldor in Bristol used to be Optimised Control and I think some of the staff are origional. They deal in high end very reliable industrial control and fixing (with the greatest of respect) old systems is low priority, especially specials.
If the chips are dead or the boards cracked then it's end of life. They dont like getting the wrong voltages either.
1st stage is to get the LED (LD1 lit up).
This is more normally on the main board and indicates that the cards alive.
Work up the bottom 12 pins on the 96 way (at the back plane, not the front, thats the STE) with a multimeter on volts and the other lead on a good ground with the card out, make sure it's just switched on. You are looking for 12V -12V and 0V. The 0V should also show continuity with ground (set to ohms).

One question, you replaced the power supply? What with? Modern PC supplies dont just switch on, they have to be told or, they need a good current draw or they stay seamingly dead?

Hope I can sort you out! But don't disappear again!

Tom

[black5f]

Appartently it's identical to a HARRISON TU150U? Have you tried them?

Tom

[harcol]

HI TOM,

MANY THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY, WE HAVE A GUY WHO FIXES OUR CNC FANUC MACHINES HE SAYS THE VOLTAGES ARE ON THE CARD AND THE POWER SUPPLY WORKS BECAUSE THE 386 COMPUTER BOOTS UP.
HE CANNOT DO ANYMORE ON IT WITH US BECAUSE HE IS AT A LOSS NOW AS TO WHAT TO DO

WE MAY OR MAY NOT BE ELECTRONICALLY AWARE ENOUGH TO CHECK ALL OF WHAT YOU SUGGEST, WE HAVE HOLIDAYS AT THE MOMENT BUT AFTER WE WILL ATTEMPT TO CHECK SOME OF THESE OUT AND HOPEFULLY WITH YOUR HELP I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT WORKING AS ITS IN LOVELY CONDITION.

I AM NOT SURE WHERE YOU ARE IN THE COUNTRY BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST IF YOU COULD FIND THE TIME TO LOOK AT IT I WILL
GLADLY PAY FOR YOUR SERVICES AND COSTS AS IT SEEMS IT COULD BE SOMETHING STUPID TO SOLVE THIS.

MY TELE NO IS 01922 494951 - HARCOL PRECISION ENGINEERS WALSALL

[black5f]

HI TOM,

MANY THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY, WE HAVE A GUY WHO FIXES OUR CNC FANUC MACHINES HE SAYS THE VOLTAGES ARE ON THE CARD AND THE POWER SUPPLY WORKS BECAUSE THE 386 COMPUTER BOOTS UP.
HE CANNOT DO ANYMORE ON IT WITH US BECAUSE HE IS AT A LOSS NOW AS TO WHAT TO DO

WE MAY OR MAY NOT BE ELECTRONICALLY AWARE ENOUGH TO CHECK ALL OF WHAT YOU SUGGEST, WE HAVE HOLIDAYS AT THE MOMENT BUT AFTER WE WILL ATTEMPT TO CHECK SOME OF THESE OUT AND HOPEFULLY WITH YOUR HELP I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT WORKING AS ITS IN LOVELY CONDITION.

I AM NOT SURE WHERE YOU ARE IN THE COUNTRY BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST IF YOU COULD FIND THE TIME TO LOOK AT IT I WILL
GLADLY PAY FOR YOUR SERVICES AND COSTS AS IT SEEMS IT COULD BE SOMETHING STUPID TO SOLVE THIS.

MY TELE NO IS 01922 494951 - HARCOL PRECISION ENGINEERS WALSALL

Hi

Holidays as well! I am only into these things as a sort of DIY cnc thing, it's not my business or any thing, so cannot make any promises, but will help where I can. It is important to check the pins I have suggested, with the card out so we know if it has power. Post the results. We need to trace the cable and determine what the pins are wired to be, one thing at a time. Once we know what they should be then check card for shorts. I will be away for two weeks. I am not very far away from you.

I have though been thinking (quite hard). As Denford rightly have said, everything to the back plane needs to be checked. Typically following errors are caused by either the servo not moving to where it should be or the encoder thinks it isn't where it should be. Apart from a dead board which we will ignore for now, on kit this old, is lack of power or interference on the screen (the shield around cables). Typically, decoupling capaciters, shorts from swarf or sometimes broken wires or connections in plugs, that sort of thing, usually made worse by moving the kit. I don't believe your card has power.

Your card has a small nicad battery, this is probably dead by now, their life is only about 5 years so I very much doubt it's that, I cut mine off! It is only used for preserving a mint program. I do not know if your card has a program freshly loaded at each boot or if it is just saved on the card (Denford?). But it's clear form the programs listed that it is trying to down load a config file so probably freshly loaded. Your boot up sequence shows me that the card is just not saying hello, not responding to the RS232 at all, and that to me means power. I say this because the card I have just stuck in my "upgrade" has not been powered for 15 years and it just sprung into life.

Alll points to power, but where is the question! It could be an RS232 issue, connections are give on P466 of uploaded manual. Important note. RS232 is actually 12v. USB type converters can only ever be 5V, they are not RS232 what ever anybody says, they may work but often dont with old kit looking for 12v, but I think your comp is a 386 so should be OK.

Advice at the moment is to carefully check those pins and report back.

Best Regards
Tom