1003 Turret Positioning Failure

[welpeur]

Cyclone has been running perfectly for months but is now returning the above error. Sometimes it indexes and returns error, sometimes doesn't index and returns error. Possibly associated with T1. The turret Barrufaldi 8 station. No idea why this has suddenly appeared. Yesterday turning the control off and on sorted the problem out temporarily but it has reappeared and become persistent today.

Please can you help?

[Martin]

Do you use coolant? If you do check that it has not got to the encoder/switch inside the turret.

Is it a RH-80 or a TOE-80?

[welpeur]

I do use coolant although it seems odd that this would be the cause as it has been running with coolant for months. I'm not sure how to check though...

I'm not sure which model turret it is or how to check...

My feeling is that it may be mechanical as from tool position 1, the turret is trying to index and making a whining sound.

I have managed to turn off/ on and run a few manual changes and rerun a program but it's erratic and within a few minutes back to the same problem. Other times I turn off/ on and it makes no difference...

[Martin]

Can you post a picture?

[welpeur]

TOE 80

I think the issue may be an unbalanced turret as there was an overweight of axial blocks all loaded with collet chucks. I removed two blocks to see and it seems to be ok so will redistribute and see if that sorts out the problem.

[Denford Admin]

Timing is critical on most turret sequences so being too heavy on one side can easily cause the sequence to fail (as the motor switches off or changes direction, the additional weight can pull it out of position briefly)

[welpeur]

Rebalancing the turret has worked since last post but today the same problem has started again. On one change the turret moved to position 8 and alarmed out and when I opened the machine, I could rotate the turret partly in each direction by hand so it obviously hadn't fully located. On other changes the turret just refuses to budge to the next position and alarms out. Please can you advise? Thanks very much.

[Martin]

The encoder may be full of liquid. Remove the cover plate on the right & make sure no coolant or oil is present.

[welpeur]

Is that the plate on the grey box behind the turret facing you if you wind the turret toward the chuck? If so, I opened it up and it is dry inside and the seals are all in very good condition.

It seems to be a mechanical issue although yo would know better than I! The turret when changing is making a more violent motion back in the reverse direction to the change just before it locates on the occasions I can get a change. For T8 then it changes to the position but will not locate and alarms out and the turret can then be rotated by hand within a small range....

[welpeur]

I don't know if this helps but I've just taken off all axial toolholders and the turret now changes to each position. Indexing through from T1 -> T8 the changes are more jerky/ violent than in the direction T8 -> T1 where they are quite, gentle and precise as they should be.

Please could you advise as I need to solve this urgently and I don't want to risk damaging the machine...

[Martin]

It's good news that there is no liquid inside the encoder.
There are a couple of things it could be though.
1. Shot pin dry (requires oiling)
If you remove the top cover plate you will see the shot pin solenoid (brass cylinder). If you remove the two retaining dogs then lift it out the shot pin should pop out along with the spring. Check the pin for any rough areas & lubricate with oil then reassemble.
2. Encoder out of position.
It may be possible that the encoder is slightly out of position. It is a bit trickier as you need to be able to read the toolpost sync signal. We would need to know if this machine is a true Fanuc or a Denford control. If it is a true Fanuc then you should be able to read the signal in the diagnostics tab otherwise you would need a meter to read it. Due to it being ok until now I would assume the encoder is correct.
If it is more serious than above then the unit would need to be returned to Barrufaldi in Italy for a service.
Fingers crossed it is just the shot pin.

I can't

[welpeur]

I've followed the instructions above. The shot pin seems fine. (People at Barrufaldi must have tiny fingers!).

There is no difference on rerunning through toolchanges. When the turret indexes to the new position it jerks back a little in the direction it came from. Going T1->T8 this does not seem right, too abrupt and nasty. From T8 -> T1 it is fairly gentle.

The machine is a proper Fanuc 0T-C control.

I wouldn't imagine that it needs a service as we picked up the machine from a college and it only had 80hrs run time! Since then we've been running for 6 months or so but it's well looked after and not crashed etc...

[welpeur]

Ok, I don't know if this helps at all but I've just been through tool changes - which now alarm out on every change - and note the following:

1. (prior to it alarming out on every change) the mechanical jerkiness is accentuated when there are axial toolholders on the turret and the alarms are more frequent

2. (post alarming out on every change) to get the turret to rotate at all post an alarm the next move has to be in the T1 -> T8 direction. The turret will not move off the position it has indexed to and alarmed out at in the T8 -> T1 direction.

[Martin]

It could be the encoder then.

You will need to mark a line on the encoder & housing then it has 2 clamps similar to the shot pin. If you slacken both screws then turn the encoder a fraction & retest.

The correct way is to monitor the sync pulse ( I can't remember the diagnostic number for this am away from the office so not able to check) then set it in the centre but it must only be a fraction out.

Martin

[welpeur]

Hi Martin .. this sounds sensible as from observation it seems that something mechanically is misaligned or not able to engage. I'm really sorry to have to ask but I will need a little more detailed instruction to do this as I'm not sure which bits are which and the part to do with the sync pulse and how to do this...

[Martin]

I will be back in the office first thing Monday & will try to find some more info.

It's not rocket science once you know how to do it.

[jaycnc]

Had the same problem on my cyclone tool turret and it turned out to be the green rotary switch in the back which was slowly collapsing on itself on the pins.
Take the turret off and take the rear cap off and check the rotary switch and while your at it check the microswitch

[Martin]

The TOE80 does not have a rotary switch & microswitch JAYNC.

It has a encoder & sensor.

I presume yours is a Barrufaldi RH80 or DM8.

[welpeur]

Thanks guys. I hope not to have to remove turret so will wait for Martin's directions on checking for a misalignment.

[Martin]

The Barrufaldi TOE80 manual has just been added,

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3843

I have attached a drawing with the relevant marks on the encoder & the 2 x screws to unclamp it.

You will need to look at the "STROBE" output from the encoder.
You can either look at Diagnostic 6.7(I think this is correct) or put a meter on the signal in the terminal connector below the top cover. It is pin 6 (Black) down to earth & should read 24volts DC when active.

If you scribe a line on the encoder & a mark to line it up against then release the 2 screws you need to rotate the encoder until the signal drops off then scribe another line on the encoder. You need to do this in both directions then set the encoder midway between both marks then clamp back up.

Hope this helps.