Denford Vicerory TDS1 PCS in a sorry state _ Rebuild?

[Taylon]

Hello to all members,

New to this forum and in need of some advice and have many question to pose.

I recently acquired a Denford Viceroy TDS1 PCS metric lathe that is in a sorry state but with numerous accessories. This lathe had been partly dismantled with the lathe being separated from the cabinet and all the electrics disconnected and left in a shed for storage.

The lathe came with:
1) Traveling Steady
2) Fixed Steady
3) 6" independent Pratt Burnard 4 Jaw on a back plate
4) 4" Pratt Burnard 3 Jaw on a back plate
5) 4" Pratt Burnard 4 Jaw on a back plate
6) 7" Face Plate
7) 4" Catch Plate
8) Myford quick change tool Post and 8 holders with a variety index tools including 2 boring bars
9) Some change wheels
10) An Eclipse 6" Magnetic chuck on a back plate
11) Another 6" Magnetic Chuck - No back plate
12) A 2 axis DRO system

Now Its up to me to restore/rebuild this lathe to working condition. I have been assured by the previous owner that all the parts are there, but to date I have found the leveling bolts for the lathe bed are missing but have managed to obtain from Ebay. Also no link belt. Is the Link Belt an A section belt?

I have read Dazz's posts with interest but still in need of some assistance as I am unfamiliar with this make and type of lathe. It really needs a complete over-hall and rebuild. Could post some pics when I have learnt to comply with picture posting on this forum.

Firstly how do you remove the lead screw and the feed rod?

Any assistance and or helpful comments would be appreciated.

Kindest regards, John R.

[dazz]

Hi

There are a couple of posts
viewtopic.php?t=3322
and
viewtopic.php?t=3945
you might want to look at.

I don't know how the lead/feed screw are retained but I expect you will need to gain access from the back or from under the headstock.

The PCS lacks the quick change gearbox that is a very important feature of any lathe. Even if you have all of the change gears, setting up feeds and threading will be a chore. It doesn't appear to have power cross feed either.

I don't want to poor water on your fire but if you are going to put the effort into rebuilding a lathe, you might as well aim for something that will end up being a capable machine. The PCS would be a prime candidate for a CNC conversion especially if the bed is hard chromed. A CNC conversion will convert a very basic lathe into something far superior.

Without knowing your needs or skills any opinion from me is not worth paying much attention to. I can say that if this was my lathe I would buy another more capable Denford lathe then sell the PCS minus the best accessories. Alternatively, I would do a CNC conversion on the PCS. Just my 2 cents worth.

Post some pictures so we can see what you have.

[Taylon]

Thank you Dazz for your prompt replay and advice. Is the link belt an A section belt?

In answer to your questions, I am a qualified mechanical engineer, but now retired. The Denford lathe was obtained just to make a few parts for a larger CVA tool room lathe that is also under going restoration. A CVA lathe was a copy of the American Monarch 10ee lathe but made in the UK.

As far as I am aware the PCS version has a powered saddle and cross feed but as you rightly point out no quick change gearbox. Considering the intended use is just for making small parts and general turning without threading work then I need to get this Viceroy back to working order. I have viewed the recommended posts you kindly referenced, thank you.

In your posts you show a picture of your lathe with the feed rod and the lead screw removed and just wondered how you had achieved that removal. Your other posts have been a great help and I intend to follow your lead to dismantle, check, and clean and lubricate the parts back to life if at all possible. Another issue do you have a drawing/dimensions and or photo of the coolant tank? Hoping to make one and in need of some details.

This lathe even had the original rubber kick switch but the end caps had come away from the main body so was non-functional, even though the diaphragm switch came with the lathe. This unit has now been repaired. Photo can be posted if of interest to members.

I have read that the motor pulley is partial to removing itself from the motor shaft and a modification has been done to prevent this happening, details can be provided. Also from pictures in other posts I see that the motor pulley is not always aligned to intermediate pulleys above the motor. Hence I have modified the base mounting holes and slotted these to allow the base plate additional movement to facilitate alignment of the drive pulleys. Photos are available.

Another issue is the cabinet acting as a sounding bell; this cabinet has been lined with sound deadening material but a stiffening angle iron has been added along the cabinet door opening side to reduce vibration. Photos can be provided at later date.

Kindest regards, John R.

[LesT]

I just nipped down and had a look at a leftover bit of Nu-T link belt from when I fitted a new belt to my Viceroy.
Its 1/2" at its widest, that makes it "A" section I think. It works fine anyway.

[dazz]

Hi

OK, all that makes sense. I am a qualified engineer also, but not yet retired. I would like a bigger lathe but finding good quality reasonably priced machine tools in this country is difficult.
I am fairly sure that the PCS doesn't have power drive on the cross slide because it appears to be missing the selector lever on the left side of the apron.

I never removed the feed shaft or lead screw. That required gaining access to the bowels of the gearbox. I just removed the bracket at the right end and supported the shafts. This allowed me to remove the apron.

The belt tends to misalign because the intermediate shaft is able to move sideways. I fixed this problem by making a new shaft.
I also found that the motor mounting was a bit sloppy making it difficult to maintain belt alignment. I fixed this by making a new motor mount and base.
A lot of the cabinet noise is a result of the Vee belts and misalignment. Fitting a poly-Vee belt fixed the root cause of the noise.
The VSD/3 phase motor also contributed to smooth and quiet running.
I am not suggesting that you should do a VSD conversion. It is a fairly major undertaking in $$ and time.

I have purpose made sound absorbent material (vinyl loaded with barium oxide) but I haven't got around to applying it.

Good luck with your restoration. I am sure everyone wants to see pictures.

[Pete.]

Taylon I know someone who has a complete CVA which has a faulty spindle and is heading for the scrapper. If you want his details to scout for parts please send me a PM.

I have a 10EE undergoing a mild restoration and clean-up.

As for your lathe, I would be inclined to sell off the steadies - the steadies make excellent money - and the chucks and other usable bits and scrap the rest then buy a more complete lathe. I guess it all comes down to how you view the work/reward ratio.

[Taylon]

Hello to all members,

Here are a few photos of the viceroy TDS 1/2PCS (converted to single phase with a 1hp GEC motor & a Dewhurst reversing switch) lathe that is the aforementioned for rebuild plus the work done so far on the cabinet that was well rusted and has been stripped back to the base metal and primed.

Dazz, is the saddle selection lever you mentioned that selects the saddle power feed and the cross slide power feed in photo DSCF1326.jpg?

Thank you all for the info and comments so far.

Kindest regards, John R.

[dazz]

Hi
Yes, you have powered cross feed. Not a feature you would expect to see on a stripped down basic model.

While you have the cabinet stripped to bare metal, you should check/redo the welds. If yours is like mine the welding is not that good.

Nice photos. Keep them coming as you progress.

[paulmo101]

Hi Taylon

I have a tds 1.1 GB viceroy lathe and I`m also in Staffordshire and although my lathe is far from the best viceroy lathe out there it is complete and working and I enjoy using it.
I have recently replaced the lower drive belt (motor to intermediate) with "Nu T-link (colour now ORANGE)" A Section belt from lathes.co.uk who are based near Buxton and do mail order. They also list viceroy gears on their web site and a few other spares.
If you need to view a working machine to help with your rebuild PM me and I will give you my contact details.

All the best

Paul

[Taylon]

Hello to you all,

Here is some updates to the renovation work to date with photos. The lathe cabinet is now fully restored and painted. The paint used is a 2 part epoxy marine quality paint by Sigma coating (Ral 5009 colour)and is not quite the same shade of blue as originally used by Denford. The finish is is satin finish and has been applied by a foam roller for gloss paints so has a dimpled effect That I hope is most durable.

The whole electrics have been stripped and rewired to industrial standards and a rotatory isolator fitted. The saddle, carriage, bed, cross slide, top slide, & tail stock have all been stripped and cleaned down to bare metal renovated and repainted.

Photos are below to illustrate some of the work done to date that may be of interest or inspiration to other members.

Kindest regards, John R.

[Denford Admin]

Thanks to you and people like Dazz for keeping these threads updated...people are inspired by what you're doing, but often don't let you know it!

[Taylon]

Hello to you all,

Just wish to thank Denford admin for their appreciation and encouragement to keep these topics updated.

The latest update on the rebuild is that the lathe bed painting has now been completed and has been fixed and leveled on the lathe cabinet. Leveling was achieved using a 10inch precision engineers level taking note of comments made by Dazz.

The tail-stock and feed gearbox renovation has also been completed and the saddle re-assembled and mounted on the bed. I have spare saddle clamp should anyone be in need of one, please PM me if that is the case.

Photos of the current rebuild state are to follow when the headstock has been renovated. The headstock speed change assembly is seized rock solid and I think the headstock will have to be removed to gain access. Further updates to follow.

Kindest regards, John R.

[Taylon]

Hello to you all,

Here are some more photos that might to be of interest; this time the headstock renovation showing the freed off gear speed selector & the rewired gear cover trip.

The lathe renovation is now complete and I have a working lathe. Will post some other photos of the restored lathe at a later date.

Kindest regards, JohnR.

[Andy B]

John,

Great to hear that your lathe is now up and running.
The paint job looks very neat - looking forward to seeing some pix of the finished result, and some finished parts produced on it.

Andy

[dazz]

Hi

Glad to see the result. The before/after pictures are impressive.
I hope you make lots of stuff on your refurbished machine.

[Electrickydicky]

Taylon,
Are you still looking for change wheels for your Viceroy? If so I have a selection that I do not need.

Richard

[Bogus105]

Hi guys,

my Viceroy is still waiting for restoration. Your work JohnR. is impressive. Can you tell (and post some more pics) something more about headstock removal and fitting it back to the lathe's bed? How did you align it and what accuracy did you get? After small investigation on my lathe headstock unit is bolted to the bed by means of four screws to wchich you can get from inside of the headstock. There is also a mystic rectangle bar that sits in front of headstock (looking from the tailstock) and is bolted down to the bed with two vertically oriented bolts, and there are also two horizontally located bolts going through that bar into the headstock. Does this rectangular bar have something to headstock-bed aligment? I'm asking because I'm not sure if it's worth taking the headstock apart.

[Bogus105]

And some questions on painting: what exactly paint did you use? Have you got Sigma Coatings product line name or product number? Did you use any primer or just mixed two part of epoxy? How did you paint those complex shapes with the foam roller? Or maybe you used foam roller for large flat surfaces only?

Regards,
Wojtek

[Taylon]

Dear Wojtek,

However, for the benefit of other members, I used a 4 inch (100mm foam roller). You have to make sure the foam type is solvent resistant otherwise the roller tends to disintegrate while you are painting. This is shown up by small parts of the roller coming away and ending up as coloured foam lumps on your painted surface.

A 1 inch (25mm) flat camel haired modellers brush was used to get into the corners/touch up the paint where the roller could not reach.

The paint used was Sigmacover 640 (has to be thinned by about 15% once the epoxy paint is mixed to be able to be used with a roller in my experience) and a metal etch primer was used as all the surfaces where brought back down to the bare metal prior to painting. I used open weave nylon type rotary abrasive discs on an angle grinder for the base and small sized discs of the same type on a die grinder and finally Scrotchbright pads to get into the corners. YOU MUST DEGREASE all the surfaces prior to removing any of the old paint as the grease will just get ingrained into the metal and the new paint just will NOT adhere.!! A solution of sodium triphosphate can be used as a good degreaser, for more information I suggest you search the internet on this subject.

BEWARE the paint/dust, as the removed paint/dust may contain lead and you must wear protective clothing and a suitable mask!! NOT to be done indoors!!

Hope this helps and apologies for the delay in posting as this is the 1st time viewing the site for many months.

Kindest regards, John R.

[Taylon]

Dear Bogus,

In answer to your question about the headstock removal, there are 4 cap head bolts inside the headstock casing that bolt the headstock to the bed. The rectangular bar in front of the headstock is bolted to the bed and the headstock by 4 cap head bolts. DO NOT remove this bar from the lathe bed!! This is what gives you the axial alignment of the headstock to the bed. The 2 cap head bolts in this bar that are attached to the headstock have to be removed in order to remove the headstock.

However, I would NOT advise to remove the headstock unless absolutely necessary!! Its a right pain getting the alignment back and you need test bars, dti(s) and other specialist equipment including a very accurate engineers level.

Hope this helps,

Kindest regards, John R.