Mach4 Conversation - Gecko G540 - Smoothstepper

All info relating to the Denford Triac series of CNC milling machines

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alextaylor23
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Re: Mach4 Conversation - Gecko G540 - Smoothstepper

Post by alextaylor23 » Tue 06 Feb , 2018 14:54 pm

Dubstar,

So if you take your OHM meter across the 0V and 0-10V on the sprint card it smooths out? That's really interesting and makes me believe it would be noise also?

I did have something interesting happen the other day related to this topic. As you know I upgraded my homing sensors and everything has been working fine...until the other day I booted the machine and went to home and the sensors had false triggers before the machine was anywhere close to its homing position. In Mach4 I was able to diagnose that it was noise and filter out the noise...so problem is solved. There are only 2 things that have changed since before: 1) it is cold out (below freezing) and 2) I am installing metal ceiling panels in my barn. I can not imagine the cold would have an effect on noise(?) so I am guessing the metal ceiling? I know this is not completely related to you, but I guess my point is it doesn't seem to take much to cause noise in the system.

Other than that the Triac has been running great. I have been making all kinds of parts for my 2x72 belt grinder I am making. The Mach4 conversion was a game changer...if the part is screwed up it is always my fault. The only thing I have yet to figure out is why the spindle will not slow down gradually to a stop after running in reverse. Instead it stops abruptly. It is not a big concern since I never run in reverse, but would be nice to figure it out.

Anyways let me know if you have any questions...I will try to help if I can, but unfortunately my knowledge is mostly mechanical!

Alex
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dubstar_04
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Re: Mach4 Conversation - Gecko G540 - Smoothstepper

Post by dubstar_04 » Tue 06 Feb , 2018 20:31 pm

alextaylor23 wrote:Dubstar,

So if you take your OHM meter across the 0V and 0-10V on the sprint card it smooths out? That's really interesting and makes me believe it would be noise also?

I did have something interesting happen the other day related to this topic. As you know I upgraded my homing sensors and everything has been working fine...until the other day I booted the machine and went to home and the sensors had false triggers before the machine was anywhere close to its homing position. In Mach4 I was able to diagnose that it was noise and filter out the noise...so problem is solved. There are only 2 things that have changed since before: 1) it is cold out (below freezing) and 2) I am installing metal ceiling panels in my barn. I can not imagine the cold would have an effect on noise(?) so I am guessing the metal ceiling? I know this is not completely related to you, but I guess my point is it doesn't seem to take much to cause noise in the system.

Other than that the Triac has been running great. I have been making all kinds of parts for my 2x72 belt grinder I am making. The Mach4 conversion was a game changer...if the part is screwed up it is always my fault. The only thing I have yet to figure out is why the spindle will not slow down gradually to a stop after running in reverse. Instead it stops abruptly. It is not a big concern since I never run in reverse, but would be nice to figure it out.

Anyways let me know if you have any questions...I will try to help if I can, but unfortunately my knowledge is mostly mechanical!

Alex

Yes the spindle runs steady while i am measuring it.

The belt grinder looks superb, I recently watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_RlL1O-bK4&t=101s
some really interesting ideas gone into the design.

i'm hoping to get some time on the mill at the weekend and sort the spindle speed. I'm hoping shielded cable will do the trick.

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Re: Mach4 Conversation - Gecko G540 - Smoothstepper

Post by Lone_Ranger » Tue 06 Feb , 2018 22:09 pm

dubstar_04 wrote:
alextaylor23 wrote:Dubstar,

So if you take your OHM meter across the 0V and 0-10V on the sprint card it smooths out? That's really interesting and makes me believe it would be noise also?

I did have something interesting happen the other day related to this topic. As you know I upgraded my homing sensors and everything has been working fine...until the other day I booted the machine and went to home and the sensors had false triggers before the machine was anywhere close to its homing position. In Mach4 I was able to diagnose that it was noise and filter out the noise...so problem is solved. There are only 2 things that have changed since before: 1) it is cold out (below freezing) and 2) I am installing metal ceiling panels in my barn. I can not imagine the cold would have an effect on noise(?) so I am guessing the metal ceiling? I know this is not completely related to you, but I guess my point is it doesn't seem to take much to cause noise in the system.

Other than that the Triac has been running great. I have been making all kinds of parts for my 2x72 belt grinder I am making. The Mach4 conversion was a game changer...if the part is screwed up it is always my fault. The only thing I have yet to figure out is why the spindle will not slow down gradually to a stop after running in reverse. Instead it stops abruptly. It is not a big concern since I never run in reverse, but would be nice to figure it out.

Anyways let me know if you have any questions...I will try to help if I can, but unfortunately my knowledge is mostly mechanical!

Alex

Yes the spindle runs steady while i am measuring it.

The belt grinder looks superb, I recently watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_RlL1O-bK4&t=101s
some really interesting ideas gone into the design.

i'm hoping to get some time on the mill at the weekend and sort the spindle speed. I'm hoping shielded cable will do the trick.
If you are stuck on a 5V system like Smoothstepper then you need to make sure as much of your wiring if using multicore cables as possible is done using "twisted pair" cables, this will reduce interference (Noise) considerably.

Motors particularly, also make sure that all relays have a Diode and resistor circuit wired across the relay coil, at the very least a Diode a lot of issues come from the spike of voltage produced when a relay coil is de-energised, the collapsing magnetic field can easily produce a very high voltage spike that will cause problems in a low voltage system ie 5 volts, not so bad when using 24V but can still cause the odd glitch so those spikes need to be drained away.

If you do use shielded cables then check carefully on the specification of any piece of equipment to see if the screen on the cable should be connected to Ground or not, any piece of equipment that is not fully electrically isolated (an example would be your Sprint spindle drive) should not have the cable screen connected to Ground, I have a later Sprint drive in my Triac that is fully isolated and runs spot on, well worth the £200 quid for reliable use and peace of mind :) :)

It is often the case also that in some instances the screen on the cable should only be connected to ground at one end, usually the control end.

I used to have a Smoothstepper on the Triac and I had lots of issues with interference, since I moved to the CSMIO/IP-M it has run faultlessly since it was installed :) :)

Regards
Rob

dubstar_04
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Re: Mach4 Conversation - Gecko G540 - Smoothstepper

Post by dubstar_04 » Wed 07 Feb , 2018 10:57 am

Lone_Ranger wrote:
dubstar_04 wrote:
alextaylor23 wrote:Dubstar,

So if you take your OHM meter across the 0V and 0-10V on the sprint card it smooths out? That's really interesting and makes me believe it would be noise also?

I did have something interesting happen the other day related to this topic. As you know I upgraded my homing sensors and everything has been working fine...until the other day I booted the machine and went to home and the sensors had false triggers before the machine was anywhere close to its homing position. In Mach4 I was able to diagnose that it was noise and filter out the noise...so problem is solved. There are only 2 things that have changed since before: 1) it is cold out (below freezing) and 2) I am installing metal ceiling panels in my barn. I can not imagine the cold would have an effect on noise(?) so I am guessing the metal ceiling? I know this is not completely related to you, but I guess my point is it doesn't seem to take much to cause noise in the system.

Other than that the Triac has been running great. I have been making all kinds of parts for my 2x72 belt grinder I am making. The Mach4 conversion was a game changer...if the part is screwed up it is always my fault. The only thing I have yet to figure out is why the spindle will not slow down gradually to a stop after running in reverse. Instead it stops abruptly. It is not a big concern since I never run in reverse, but would be nice to figure it out.

Anyways let me know if you have any questions...I will try to help if I can, but unfortunately my knowledge is mostly mechanical!

Alex

Yes the spindle runs steady while i am measuring it.

The belt grinder looks superb, I recently watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_RlL1O-bK4&t=101s
some really interesting ideas gone into the design.

i'm hoping to get some time on the mill at the weekend and sort the spindle speed. I'm hoping shielded cable will do the trick.
If you are stuck on a 5V system like Smoothstepper then you need to make sure as much of your wiring if using multicore cables as possible is done using "twisted pair" cables, this will reduce interference (Noise) considerably.

Motors particularly, also make sure that all relays have a Diode and resistor circuit wired across the relay coil, at the very least a Diode a lot of issues come from the spike of voltage produced when a relay coil is de-energised, the collapsing magnetic field can easily produce a very high voltage spike that will cause problems in a low voltage system ie 5 volts, not so bad when using 24V but can still cause the odd glitch so those spikes need to be drained away.

If you do use shielded cables then check carefully on the specification of any piece of equipment to see if the screen on the cable should be connected to Ground or not, any piece of equipment that is not fully electrically isolated (an example would be your Sprint spindle drive) should not have the cable screen connected to Ground, I have a later Sprint drive in my Triac that is fully isolated and runs spot on, well worth the £200 quid for reliable use and peace of mind :) :)

It is often the case also that in some instances the screen on the cable should only be connected to ground at one end, usually the control end.

I used to have a Smoothstepper on the Triac and I had lots of issues with interference, since I moved to the CSMIO/IP-M it has run faultlessly since it was installed :) :)

Regards
Rob
Hey Rob,

Thanks you for such a comprehensive reply. I have a dual core shielded cable ready to try. I will try it ungrounded first and if that makes no difference I will ground it to the 48v power supply that the steppers use.

The other thing that I could try is connecting the ground of the other supplies. I have 5v, 12v and 48v supplies that I have added plus the 24v supply that was already in the cabinet.

This is how it looks at the moment:
Cabinet.JPG
Cabinet.JPG (123.83 KiB) Viewed 264 times

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