Triac Tripping Breaker at high RPM

All info relating to the Denford Triac series of CNC milling machines

Moderators: Steve, Mr Magoo, Martin, bradders

Post Reply
jamesgates1000
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat 01 Aug , 2015 9:23 am
Hardware/Software: 2001 Cyclone with toolchanger and Fanuc 21i control
Serial number - H00913.
Voltage 415V F.L.C 20A 50Hz 3Ph

1997 Triac VMCwith toolchanger and Fanuc O-M control
Serial number - 70826B.
Voltage 415V F.L.C 30A 50Hz 3Ph

Triac Tripping Breaker at high RPM

Post by jamesgates1000 » Sat 10 Jun , 2017 9:49 am

Just replaced the spindle bearings on my Denfored Triac, was running nice, until...

I made a mistake the other night and picked up the wrong tool offset, rapid 15mm into ali with a 6mm spot drill at 4000rpm. Got a 1008 spindle drive fault, the 10a timed fuse had blown so I replaced it. I then turned the machine back on and once I hit the green on button it tripped the breaker in the garage workshop. Reset breaker and replaced the fuse again and the machine turned on fine. Ran program fine until it picked a tool and tried to run at 4000rpm, this caused the main breaker for the whole building to go. Turns out that if I try to run the spindle above 3300rpm it will trip this main breaker.

I can still run the machine at lower revs but would like to find out why I can't run the spindle faster. Spindle sounds okay, maybe a bit crunchy occasionally.

Has anyone had a similar problem and could give me a hint, is this most probably a motor(SEM) or spindle drive(Sprint 1600i) issue?

Also does anyone know why the machine fuse and the garage breaker fail to trip before tripping the main breaker.

moray
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu 12 Sep , 2013 20:02 pm
Hardware/Software: Cyclone TU150E (Running KMotionCNC with Servos)
Novamill running V5
Triac VMC

Re: Triac Tripping Breaker at high RPM

Post by moray » Sat 10 Jun , 2017 21:22 pm

In my experience of an old connect cnc lathe with DC spindle, those are the symptoms of a failing drive. It had the same problem, and a new drive cured it. The SCRs start to fail short circuit, so the mains essentially starts seeing a fast switching dead short.

The main breaker being tripped is likely to be down to either it's seeing more current and reaching it's trip limit before the local breaker, or it's a faster acting breaker.

The same thing was wrong with my Triac, but as you'll of seen from my thread over on mycnc, I used it as an excuse to retrofit an AC servo. Somebody did link to a new sprint drive in one of the Triac threads over on mycnc, and they're aren't that expensive new, but I can't remember if it was my thread or Chaz's.

jamesgates1000
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat 01 Aug , 2015 9:23 am
Hardware/Software: 2001 Cyclone with toolchanger and Fanuc 21i control
Serial number - H00913.
Voltage 415V F.L.C 20A 50Hz 3Ph

1997 Triac VMCwith toolchanger and Fanuc O-M control
Serial number - 70826B.
Voltage 415V F.L.C 30A 50Hz 3Ph

Re: Triac Tripping Breaker at high RPM

Post by jamesgates1000 » Sun 11 Jun , 2017 10:25 am

Hi Moray,

Thanks for your help again. It did report as spindle drive fault when I first changed the spindle bearings, as the top parallel bearing doesn't actually touch the spindle shaft so I pushed it against the spindle slightly so the bearing would spin. Think this pressure put extra load on the spindle. Do you think that it was the crash that damaged the drive, or just getting to the end of its life?

Found a Sprint drive for £220 so not too bad, need to replace it as I have quite a bit of work coming up.

Is it a big job to set up or can I just measure the resistance on the pots on the old one and use that to set the new one?

May be worth getting a faster acting local breaker too for the future just in case.

Martin
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1671
Joined: Fri 24 Feb , 2006 17:09 pm
Location: Brighouse

Re: Triac Tripping Breaker at high RPM

Post by Martin » Tue 13 Jun , 2017 12:59 pm

It sounds more like a fault on the spindle motor to me. I presume you have a SEM motor?

It may be worth checking the actual speed of the spindle using a tachometer if you can get hold of one. if it's over 4000 rpm you can turn it down on the max speed pot.

It's is possible for the motor to flash over & deposit carbon inside the motor which may need to be cleaned out by a motor rewind company.

jamesgates1000
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat 01 Aug , 2015 9:23 am
Hardware/Software: 2001 Cyclone with toolchanger and Fanuc 21i control
Serial number - H00913.
Voltage 415V F.L.C 20A 50Hz 3Ph

1997 Triac VMCwith toolchanger and Fanuc O-M control
Serial number - 70826B.
Voltage 415V F.L.C 30A 50Hz 3Ph

Re: Triac Tripping Breaker at high RPM

Post by jamesgates1000 » Wed 21 Jun , 2017 11:50 am

Took the motor to servo repair place in Bristol, apparently there was a washer loose rattling round inside, which was causing the motor to short. Luckily it didnt damage it enough to need a rewind. Having it re furbished as it has been taken apart. Hopefully this will solve the issue then I can return the spindle drive card if it is not needed.

jamesgates1000
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat 01 Aug , 2015 9:23 am
Hardware/Software: 2001 Cyclone with toolchanger and Fanuc 21i control
Serial number - H00913.
Voltage 415V F.L.C 20A 50Hz 3Ph

1997 Triac VMCwith toolchanger and Fanuc O-M control
Serial number - 70826B.
Voltage 415V F.L.C 30A 50Hz 3Ph

Re: Triac Tripping Breaker at high RPM

Post by jamesgates1000 » Sun 25 Jun , 2017 22:16 pm

Got the motor back fully refurbished and still getting the power tripping problem. Will try the replacement sprint drive board, is it fine to just set the pots by eye against the old board?

Martin
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1671
Joined: Fri 24 Feb , 2006 17:09 pm
Location: Brighouse

Re: Triac Tripping Breaker at high RPM

Post by Martin » Mon 26 Jun , 2017 10:38 am

The top speed is quite critical to not go beyond.

Also make sure you set the 4 switches the same.

jamesgates1000
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat 01 Aug , 2015 9:23 am
Hardware/Software: 2001 Cyclone with toolchanger and Fanuc 21i control
Serial number - H00913.
Voltage 415V F.L.C 20A 50Hz 3Ph

1997 Triac VMCwith toolchanger and Fanuc O-M control
Serial number - 70826B.
Voltage 415V F.L.C 30A 50Hz 3Ph

Re: Triac Tripping Breaker at high RPM

Post by jamesgates1000 » Wed 12 Jul , 2017 18:54 pm

Just to wrap this up....

Power was still tripping at high speed and if I took a medium size cut, got a £7 tachometer from ebay to check the rpm and it was running fast. (3600rpm when set to 3000rpm)

Dialled it back a bit but it was still tripping power taking cuts that it did before.

So I finally got round to changing the sprint 1600i board, used thje tachometer to set the max speed just under 4000rpm, and now no problems at all.

Thanks for all your help with this.

Post Reply