Routine Problem

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MauricioTakano
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Re: Routine Problem

Post by MauricioTakano » Wed 03 Oct , 2012 18:05 pm

The problem is that the communication between the machine and the software used to work fine, and all of a sudden it started the lag problem. It happened to both milling and turning machine. It was working fine one day, the day next to that (without changing any configurations or cables) it started to respond really slow.
Communication is as slow now as it was when I was not using USB-RS232 converter.
Is it possible that both RS232 cables started not to work properly all of a sudden?
Why is VR Milling V2.31 not connecting to the machine without running Workbench?
Sometimes when I connect VR Milling V2.31 with the machine, it doesn't recognize Z axis' limit, and keeps trying to home it forever.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by Denford Admin » Thu 04 Oct , 2012 8:48 am

Did you install some other software or device at the time they started to go slowly ? It sounds like the RS232 connection is being slowed down or interfered with by either other software or device drivers. It could also be related to the power supply or earthing...did anything like that change when the issue started ?
The only way to prove something would be to connect a PC which is known to work OK via RS232 and rule out the PC and software

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by scottishrover » Thu 04 Oct , 2012 18:20 pm

Hi there,

I have been reading your problem in the forum and I have had a problem connecting to my machine with similar symptoms.

My machine is a micro-router compact which uses the same green led control card I worked out what it was and my machine is up and running again. I presume your connection is rs232 only as mine is. I'm not sure I would recommend an RS232 to USB setup as these can only introduce potential issues.

I suspect your initial drop in machine speed was due to a reduction in the connection speed from 56000 to 9600 or whatever the exact figure is (possibly due to some serial connection issue with the pc or the usb to rs232 converter).

The computer I was using appeared to display symptoms of a faulty serial connector as the keyboard etc were malfunctioning prior to my connection failure issues appearing) but the actual fault you have now might be caused by the firmware having been erased from your control card as mine turned out to be.

Having eliminated any possibility of a pc/rs232 issue causing the connection problems, by using a new computer/cable/and connecting them to a known working machine to test they were fine then swapping the connection to the 'suspect' machine and still being unable to connect via rs232, I turned my attention to the control card/machine itself.

There is a simple check on the firmware status when powering up.

Have you looked at the green LED when you power up the machine without a pc connected.

While powering up the board should indicate an 8.

When fully powered up should show a 2.

If the green LED is showing a dash in the middle, then you have ended up in the same position I found myself in and I might be able to suggest a possible fix. (This code indicates no firmware found in the flash device)

When I opened the case and powered up the machine I got 1 2 dash. oh dear.

In this state my Micro-router Compact NS with the green LED control board wouldn't connect at all via rs232 and the same software baud rate issues you have were present.

I couldn't connect at all with VR Milling or Easy Uploader.

I installed workbench and similar to your case it identified the nextmove st card but could only connect at 9600 baud.

Let me know how your board looks on power up without a pc connected.

If it has the dash showing its a firmware missing issue you should hopefully be able to use the same method I used to reinstall the firmware into the control card and get it connecting correctly again so I wouldn't give up just yet.

James

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by MauricioTakano » Thu 04 Oct , 2012 21:41 pm

All I did was installing a cd player in one of the computers when it started to slow down. Then I tried to un-plug the cd player again, but it continued to be really slow. The computer that was connected to the milling machine suffered no changes of any kind, it just got slow.

Thanks for the tip scottishrover, I will try looking at the green display next time I turn the machine on. I am not at the university right now, as soon as I get there I will check this out.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by Denford Admin » Fri 05 Oct , 2012 14:16 pm

I've never seen this issue with the machine connecting at 9600 baud.
Those cards always used to connect at 57600...I wonder if Mint Workbench negotiates a reliable speed when it connects (VR Milling won't do this and always try to connect at 57600) This might explain why VR will only connect when workbench is running and has already made a connection.

In the distant past we had some strange issues with the EEprom which was fitted to the Nextmove ST with only RS232.
This EEProm can be removed and VR should still connect OK...its worth a try anyway.
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Try remove this EEProm
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Re: Routine Problem

Post by scottishrover » Fri 05 Oct , 2012 17:43 pm

Hi again,

I'm almost sure that the connection is indeed being made by mint workbench negotiating and dropping communication speed down to 9600 baud and finally connecting to the nextmove st board inside the machine.

I never tried connecting vr milling to my machine whilst the workbench 9600 baud connection was open to test if I could communicate slowly as I had already identified the firmware missing message on the LED display and having eliminated the possibility of an rs232 port error on the computer I was using was pretty sure that was my issue.

Workbench when it connects to the board should display on your computer the LED message displayed on the control board so if you launch workbench you should be able to tell the board status without removing machine panel.

Is it possible that if the nextmove board has a firmware error that connection might only be possible at 9600 baud via workbench.

My understanding is that the easy upgrader/vr milling software are both unable to connect at 57600 baud but are able to communicate with the machine using the open workbench serial connection to the nextmove board ( but at 9600 baud instead of 57600 causing errors)

Let me know how your workbench board status is

I suspect that the CD player installation might have caused communication settings to change causing serial connection speed issues.

When using my machine I try to avoid installing anything unnecessary on the control computer to hopefully eliminate the chance of problems arising.

James

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by MauricioTakano » Sat 06 Oct , 2012 1:24 am

Hi,
Thanks for the EEPROM tip, it worked fine for the turning machine.
However every since I had to press the "Guard Close" button in the milling machine it stopped working the Z axis.
Any idea why did it happen?
Oh, now I can connect using 57600 baud rate in both machines. But the milling machine is presenting this axis problem.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by MauricioTakano » Sat 06 Oct , 2012 12:05 pm

MauricioTakano wrote: However every since I had to press the "Guard Close" button in the milling machine it stopped working the Z axis.
I meant "ever since", not "every since".
That time I pressed the "Guard close" button to make the software connect with the machine. After doing this the z axis stopped working.
When I click "Home Z" the z axis' motor start making noise, but the axis doesn't move at all. Actually the axis is already at zero position, it doesn't need to move to home. But the noise of the motor continues until it reaches time limit and stop and say that there was an error during homing process.
Any idea why is this happening?
thanks.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by Denford Admin » Mon 08 Oct , 2012 14:00 pm

If it's already at the home position the axis may be stuck. can you use the secret home button and try jog the Z Axis down ?

Secret home function for VR Milling v2 and v5:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by MauricioTakano » Tue 09 Oct , 2012 12:53 pm

Hi,

The secret home button worked. However it didn´t solve my problem.
Each time I connect the computer with the machine something goes wrong.
Sometimes a message "Drive is not ready" shows up when I try to home any axis (or when I try to move any axis, after pressing the secret home button).
Sometimes a message "asynchronous axis error" pops up when it finishes connecting.
Sometimes Feed rate shows to be 0% and I can´t move any axis.
Sometimes 2 of the problems happen at the same time.
Sometimes all 3 happens at the same time.
And when none of these errors happen I can manage to home all 3 axis (using the secret home button) I still can´t move the Z axis, it seems to be stuck or something. It makes a shrill noise and the axis doesn´t move at all.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by Denford Admin » Tue 09 Oct , 2012 13:43 pm

The Z axis definately sounds to be jammed mechanically...not sure if there is a brake on that Z motor but you could try remove the Z motor and see if that turns.
Can you then turn the Z pulley by hand? If not then you'll need to see what's happened to that axis.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by MauricioTakano » Tue 09 Oct , 2012 13:50 pm

I tried to pull the pulley by hand but it didn´t move.
What about the other errors that are happening? Any idea?

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by Denford Admin » Tue 09 Oct , 2012 13:53 pm

They are probably due to the homing sequence not completing and the control getting mixed up... I'd get the axis moving before worrying about those.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by MauricioTakano » Tue 09 Oct , 2012 18:58 pm

Ok, now I tried to take off the belt and turn the pulley alone and it worked.
The problem is in the motor. Is there some kind of break in the motor that might make this?

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by Martin » Tue 09 Oct , 2012 19:14 pm

Have you tried it with the power off?

Can you post a picture of the motor. We have fitted brakes before but I can't remember on on a Triton.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by MauricioTakano » Tue 09 Oct , 2012 20:10 pm

Hi,
Yes, I tried with the power off.
I am posting the pictures of the motor.
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Re: Routine Problem

Post by Martin » Wed 10 Oct , 2012 7:35 am

It does have a brake.

It's the brass unit sat on top of the stepper motor.

If you remove the brake from the motor you can check the stepper motor then go back & check the brake. It is a 24 volts DC unit & will be locked until power is applied.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by Denford Admin » Wed 10 Oct , 2012 9:19 am

Have moved this post to the Triac section which seems more relevant now.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by MauricioTakano » Wed 10 Oct , 2012 20:08 pm

Hi,
I removed the break and tried to move the z axis. Even without the break the motor didn´t run.
It only makes a shrill noise. After removing the break I am able to rotate the motor by hand.

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Re: Routine Problem

Post by Denford Admin » Thu 11 Oct , 2012 9:32 am

Try to eleminate the stepper driver or the motor wires/motor by swapping the X axis with the Z axis.

If the Z motor now runs (from jogging the X axis) then the driver is at fault.
If the problem remains on the Z then the motor or wiring is faulty.

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