CNC Virgin (Starmill PC upgrade to Mach3)

All info relating to the Denford Starmill CNC milling machines

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Rowboat
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue 03 Jan , 2012 15:01 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford starmill
Serial # EO3867/1 and /2
Electronics Serial # 0001140 and OC0001118
Hoping to use Mach3 which I have.
Location: Toronto, Canada

CNC Virgin (Starmill PC upgrade to Mach3)

Post by Rowboat » Tue 03 Jan , 2012 16:24 pm

Well folks, here is the first of, probably, many posts.

I have just purchased two Starmills from a closing school.
I have received the racks and the machines.

Model # Starmill PC
Serial # EO3867/1 and /2
Date May 1991
Export # 3867
Main Motor HP 1/4, 18KW, DC
Electronics Serial # 0C0001118 and 0001140.


The first thing I need (I think) is the pin information for the interface cord.
I want to use MACH3, unless any of you have other recommendations.

The first thing in the setup is to identify pins. They tell you this information is provided by the manufacturer!
Would anyone know what the pin assignments are for this machine?
Last edited by Rowboat on Sat 14 Jan , 2012 0:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's okay to be crazy, just don't let it drive you nuts!!!

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Re: CNC Virgin

Post by Denford Admin » Tue 03 Jan , 2012 17:55 pm

I'm pretty sure these drawings will be for your machine: (hopefully the pins used on the connector is shown)
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=3185

If you want to use Mach, then have a look here at similar upgrades:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1763
It shows the usual issues faced, ie where to wire up step+direction signals, how to interface from a mach BOB, how to use the exisiting 8 or 12 volt proximety sensors for homing...I believe there have been more Triac upgrades to Mach than Starmill, but your Starmills look very similar electrically.

The stepper drives will be SD2/SD3 and manuals for those are on here somewhere (try the google custom search box at the bottom of the forum for better results)
If you can't find everything you have on your machines, then look at info for machines of a simlar vintage(eg, Starturn, Orac, Triac, Easimill etc..)

Ps - You can attach images on here as well. I prefer that over using 3rd party photo hosting as there's nothing worse than looking back at a forum post a couple of years later, only to find that user's account has expired or they've cleaned out their old stuff.

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Rowboat
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue 03 Jan , 2012 15:01 pm
Hardware/Software: Denford starmill
Serial # EO3867/1 and /2
Electronics Serial # 0001140 and OC0001118
Hoping to use Mach3 which I have.
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: CNC Virgin

Post by Rowboat » Mon 09 Jan , 2012 20:05 pm

Denford Admin wrote:I'm pretty sure these drawings will be for your machine: (hopefully the pins used on the connector is shown)
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=3185

If you want to use Mach, then have a look here at similar upgrades:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1763
It shows the usual issues faced, ie where to wire up step+direction signals, how to interface from a mach BOB, how to use the exisiting 8 or 12 volt proximety sensors for homing...I believe there have been more Triac upgrades to Mach than Starmill, but your Starmills look very similar electrically.

The stepper drives will be SD2/SD3 and manuals for those are on here somewhere (try the google custom search box at the bottom of the forum for better results)
If you can't find everything you have on your machines, then look at info for machines of a simlar vintage(eg, Starturn, Orac, Triac, Easimill etc..)

Ps - You can attach images on here as well. I prefer that over using 3rd party photo hosting as there's nothing worse than looking back at a forum post a couple of years later, only to find that user's account has expired or they've cleaned out their old stuff.
Will do on the pictures.
Thanks.
Brent
It's okay to be crazy, just don't let it drive you nuts!!!

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Rinkboard
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Joined: Mon 23 Jan , 2012 23:29 pm

Re: CNC Virgin

Post by Rinkboard » Mon 12 Mar , 2012 12:13 pm

IMG_20120227_160301.jpg
overview
IMG_20120227_160301.jpg (805.92 KiB) Viewed 13748 times
IMG_20120227_160301.jpg
overview
IMG_20120227_160301.jpg (805.92 KiB) Viewed 13748 times
I bought one of the machines from rowboat and I am attempting to convert it to mach 3 also. My electronics knowledge is limited though. I do have some help from a friend however he has never worked on a cnc machine.
I have purchased a c11 breakout board from CNC4PC but I have no clue where to start. I have read the other related postings and understand that I can keep the drivers and stepper motors but I really need some help with the actual connections and how to set them up with this board. I emailed the guy at CNC4PC and he thought I might need a different board. Here is his reply.
I am sure you can keep the motors and power supply, and very possibly the drivers, but you need to make sure those drivers take TTL step and direction signals. Most do, but you need to locate the datasheet and confirm this. If you cannot confirm it, then you need to replace them, which is not a bad idea considering the great performance you are going to get from new digital drivers, and at a very low cost.

- In any case, do not attempt to use the original motion controller. You need a PC running mach3 and a breakout board to connect to all I/Os.

- I see a lot of I/Os and possibly relays. If you have the original wiring diagrams. You should be able to keep most of the them like they are. Map the I/Os and check how they would connect to a breakout board.

- You may need to replace relays if they do not take TTL logic, here are some options: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/index.php?cPath=24.

- I would think you should be able to wire all those I/Os on single or dual port breakout board. Maybe the C23 would be a good option. If you need more I/Os, just let me know. If you want to can map your I/Os and send it to me, and I will send my suggestions on how to wire it.


I have posted some pictures. :delirious:
Attachments
mainbrd.jpg
main board connections for controller card and custom card
mainbrd.jpg (160.75 KiB) Viewed 13748 times
stepper drives.jpg
stepper drivers
stepper drives.jpg (155.72 KiB) Viewed 13748 times

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Re: CNC Virgin

Post by Denford Admin » Mon 12 Mar , 2012 13:25 pm

These posts sholud help:
Parker Digiplan stepper drive manuals
viewtopic.php?t=561
Mach3 running unmodified Triac!!!
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1108
Help with Triac VMC converting to Mach
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1763
Novamill, first time in cnc (Mach conversion)
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2263
PKS Digiplan with Mach3
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=929&start=0
viewtopic.php?t=2263
Baldor Nextstep Step and Direction pins - 96way connector
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2264
Baldor eurocard schematic and 96 way pinout
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2119

SimonRafferty
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Hardware/Software: Denford Cyclone P
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Re: CNC Virgin

Post by SimonRafferty » Mon 12 Mar , 2012 13:27 pm

The CNC4PC board will talk directly to the original stepper drivers without a problem. You need to identify which pins on the drivers are step, direction and ground then trace these through whatever lead connected these to the original computer board.

It might be best to buy a socket, solder it to a piece of strip-board and make a break-out for the end of the original lead (probably a ribbon cable). Then connect them to the CNC4PC board via bits of connecting wire.

You need to identify what each of the relays does. There will be one for coolant, two for spindle (either one for forwards + one for reverse or one for On/off and the other for CW/CCW - the circuit diagram should shed light on which) maybe one for machine lube, possibly cooling fans and certainly one for machine power (power to the motors & drivers, independent of the supply to the computer.

The CNC4PC board has a selection of relays. These should be used either to switch the mains in the case of low current things like the coolant pump or to switch the 12 / 24v to the original relay coils for things like machine power.

The biggest challenge with these is the interface to the home / limit switches. Some Denford machines use difficult to interface 8v sensors. If this is the case, I would strongly recommend you swap these for modern TTL proximity switches (available from RS) which will talk directly to the CNC4PC board without any additional electronics. I wish I'd done this on mine!

The spindle speed is controlled by a 0 to 10v supply which the CNC4PC board will generate. It has a 12v supply input specifically for this. It is VERY IMPORTANT that this is fully isolated from any other supply. If not, it will damage the CNC4PC board and if you are unlucky the spindle inverter too. Either use a 12v to 12v Isolating DC/DC converter or an isolated 12v Power supply module - both of which are available from RS. It barely draws any current - so something around 5w will be plenty. Do not use this supply for anything else.

A project like this requires a certain amount of reverse engineering which only you can do. There is no pre-defined route-map for how to do a conversion. How about just asking specific questions when you get stuck?

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Re: CNC Virgin

Post by Denford Admin » Mon 12 Mar , 2012 17:24 pm

I've found some electrical drawings which look roughly like what you have:
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=3185

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Rinkboard
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Re: CNC Virgin

Post by Rinkboard » Sun 18 Mar , 2012 13:31 pm

Thanks for the replies. I will update as I progress.

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