Motor removal on Viceroy TDS

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gnwt76
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed 18 Jul , 2018 20:17 pm
Hardware/Software: windows 10

Motor removal on Viceroy TDS

Post by gnwt76 » Wed 18 Jul , 2018 20:29 pm

I have rather old! Viceroy TDS lathe, ex school, which gives me excellent service. However I think it requires new brushes in the motor. It is a Hoover motor made in Scotland. The question is, which is the best and easiest way to remove the motor and can anybody give me an idea where I can obtain brushes?
Many thanks
Gary

Andy B
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Hardware/Software: 280 VS lathe, Denford Senior E-type mill, Senior Major Universal Mill
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Re: Motor removal on Viceroy TDS

Post by Andy B » Wed 18 Jul , 2018 21:31 pm

Hi Gary,
No brushes in Viceroy motors - they are all AC synchronous motors.
What are the symptoms? Is it low on power, noisy, running unevenly?
Has it been lubricated annually, as per the manual?
Worth also checking the cables and connections - if a connection has become loose somewhere it can lead to erratic operation. I had an intermittent fault on my 280VS which I tracked down to a faulty soldered joint on the guard interlock switch.

I assume the motor is in the cabinet base? in which case the motor is simply bolted to a hinged plate which enables the belt tension to be adjusted - so easily removed if you have to.
It is just possible that the insulation in the motor is breaking down - this can cause noisy running and a loss of power (Had this on my Senior mill). Do you have a local electrical engineer or motor rewind company who could check it over for you?

Hope this helps.
Andy

gnwt76
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed 18 Jul , 2018 20:17 pm
Hardware/Software: windows 10

Re: Motor removal on Viceroy TDS

Post by gnwt76 » Wed 18 Jul , 2018 22:10 pm

Thank you Andy for your reply. Symptoms are, today when I used the lathe it would not start all I got was a buzzing noise, switched off and rotated the chuck by hand and tried again (this has worked to start the motor a few times previously) I had to do this a few times to get the motor moving. I then talked to my neighbour who said it could be the brushes worn so that is why I have gone down that route. I will get the part number of the motor and look into its workings. The lathe must be at least 40 years old and as I say the motor is a Hoover make, single phase>

Andy B
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon 20 Nov , 2006 18:19 pm
Hardware/Software: 280 VS lathe, Denford Senior E-type mill, Senior Major Universal Mill
Location: East Midlands, UK

Re: Motor removal on Viceroy TDS

Post by Andy B » Thu 19 Jul , 2018 7:36 am

Gary,
Single phase AC Motors have a start capacitor - these components can also fail, even quite 'young' (had one go on my garden shredder). This is a likely cause of the symptoms you describe.
They are usually contained either in the terminal box or in a tube-shaped bulge on the outside of the motor casing.
You will need to match the voltage (minimum) and Microfarad rating - but check also the length and diameter to ensure that it will fit.
Examples are shown here: https://www.motorcontrolwarehouse.co.uk ... itors.html.

Some older single phase motors have a centrifugal switch that cuts out the start capacitor once the motor is up to speed. Whilst that is a possible cause, I'd check the capacitor(s) first.

If you have some level of electrical competence, then this book is a good one to improve your knowledge: https://www.bookdepository.com/Electric ... 1854861337.
But if you're not sure, please do take it to a motor rewind place or similar - they would probably do a basic check on it for free.

Andy

gnwt76
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed 18 Jul , 2018 20:17 pm
Hardware/Software: windows 10

Re: Motor removal on Viceroy TDS

Post by gnwt76 » Thu 19 Jul , 2018 22:06 pm

Thank you Andy again for your advice. The usual story with these problems, it has been working perfectly today, not a murmur. I can remember passing exams on Electrical engineering but as time goes bye and you are not acquainted with electrical parts it gets pushed to the back of your mind. I will get hold of the book you suggest and start to re-acquaint myself. I suppose its having the confidence in your ability of reason. Many thanks again and I will keep you posted on how I solve the problem.
Gary

gnwt76
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed 18 Jul , 2018 20:17 pm
Hardware/Software: windows 10

Re: Motor removal on Viceroy TDS

Post by gnwt76 » Sun 05 Sep , 2021 10:45 am

Hello Andy, a long time has passed and at last I seem to have solved the problem with the motor reluctance to start. it was beginning to drive me mad as I had to keep tapping the motor to get it to start. A few 'Motor repairers' only wanted to sell me a new motor. It drives me despair these days with the current incompetence of the industry. Even a bit of advice such as yours would help. My son, who is a bit electrically minded, decided that we remove the motor and have a look inside. (the book you advised sowed a few seeds!) The motor is in remarkably good condition, clean and the bearing good. It has a centrifugal primary coil switch, this was all free but the contacts on the switch appeared to have a bit of 'muck' around them. A good clean up with 'brake cleaner' an a light oiling on the pivots and the motor is as good as new. Fixing the problem was the easiest part, the hard part was getting the motor out and back in the lathe. The people who had fitted the motor have not done a great job, with fixing bolt holes through the bottom plate breaking into ribs in the plate consequently the nuts and bolts not clamping the base plate of the motor correctly. This fit I imagine about 30 t0 40 years ago so I cannot blame it on modern youth! I would have my backside kicked for doing work like that. Showing my age maybe.
Anyway I am sure you will be pleased that you have helped someone.
Best regards
Gary

gnwt76
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed 18 Jul , 2018 20:17 pm
Hardware/Software: windows 10

Re: Motor removal on Viceroy TDS

Post by gnwt76 » Wed 29 Jun , 2022 17:43 pm

Hello all, just as I thought I had solved the starting problem with my lathe, its back again! Buzzing noise when I switch on, switch it off, tap the top of the motor gently, switch on and off she goes. Stop and start a few times the the motor again fails to start. Go through the same procedure and the motor starts. Having a look at the switch lever which is operated by the centrifugal mechanism on the main shaft I notice that the pivot hole in the Bakelite part appears to have an elongated hole, It does not appear to be worn so is it made like this?
Would the capacitor be at fault? Opinions seem to vary, some say that the capacitor cannot be 'lazy' they only fail completely so as a try do I fit another capacitor? The capacitor is marked 80/125 micro farad, 275 Volt RMS. It is a paper covered one made by DENLY. Which would be a starting point to fit?
Otherwise it is possibly a new motor. Again there seems to be a multitude about, which one would be best?
Thanks for any advise.
Gary

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