Tripping rcbo and coms issue

All info relating to the Denford MicroRouter and MicroRouter Pro CNC Routers

Moderators: Martin, bradders, Steve, Mr Magoo

Post Reply
tinmantom
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon 28 Oct , 2019 12:58 pm
Hardware/Software: Microrouter V3

Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by tinmantom » Mon 28 Oct , 2019 16:25 pm

Hi,

I recently acquired a microrouter and control box (with red-seven-segment control board).

Serial number H001393

I got it home and was able to make it follow some G code which was quite a thrill.

The next morning I went to have a bit more time on it and when I turned on the control box it tripped the RCBO supplying the room. I narrowed this down to the spindle so if I have the router unplugged (or switched off) it doesn't trip and powers up fine. The router itself works fine when plugged into another socket with a kettle lead.
However since this issue I am no longer able to "find" the machine from VRMill software.

If I put Denford Comms tool into receive mode and turn the control box on I get the following on the screen:

DenMINT v2.01.b6/S/B19
(c) Baldor (UK) Ltd 1988-2001
C>

Which to me implies the cable and RS232 parameters aren't at fault?



The control board has a flashing dot and an L symbol.
The spindle board has the red "on" LED illuminated.
I've checked the large fuse on the spindle board, the four fuses in the DIN rail holders and the fuse on the comms board - all ok.

The morning it failed was cold and there may well have been condensation somewhere - that's all I can think had changed.
Any thoughts?

Cheers

User avatar
Steve
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue 21 Feb , 2006 16:15 pm
Location: Denford UK

Re: Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by Steve » Wed 30 Oct , 2019 17:10 pm

Hi,

The L indicates that the control software needs loading.

See the link attached:
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3167&p=16305&hilit ... ent#p16305

What happens when you power on the machine and try to connect? Does the software find the machine and start to load the software?

How are you connecting? is it via a USB to serial converter?

If the machine link is not working then this could be the problem. while the coms check is good it is not conclusive.

tinmantom
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon 28 Oct , 2019 12:58 pm
Hardware/Software: Microrouter V3

Re: Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by tinmantom » Wed 30 Oct , 2019 22:25 pm

Thanks for getting back to me!

- What happens when you power on the machine and try to connect? Does the software find the machine and start to load the software?

It tries to find the machine on COM1 - the progress bar has a bit of movement but then after about 5 seconds it gives up, quickly tries the other 8 COM ports, fails and throws up a big warning screen saying things about possible fuses being blown, poor RS232 connection etc.

- How are you connecting? is it via a USB to serial converter?
No original hardware serial port on a desktop machine running windows XP (never going to network it don't worry!) The link cable was made by the person who sold the machine to me. I'm pretty sure I've checked it against the various threads on here to confirm it's correct (plus - it worked!)

- If the machine link is not working then this could be the problem. while the coms check is good it is not conclusive.

Could it be that the serial port of my computer is receiving but not transmitting?

Thanks again for your thoughts.

User avatar
Steve
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue 21 Feb , 2006 16:15 pm
Location: Denford UK

Re: Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by Steve » Thu 31 Oct , 2019 11:57 am

Hi,

Until you get the router to see the computer and load software through the RS232 port you will not get to know if its working.

If the fault that tripped the earth leakage breaker was a spindle short to earth it could have gone to ground through the serial cable too and damaged the RS232 port.

As you have had it connecting in the past then we know the cables are alright. It is possible there is damage to the control card in the machine or the com port on the computer.

Is there a second RS232 port on the computer? if so could you try that? (you would have to change the com port in the machine settings to com 2 if this is the case). Do you have another computer with an RS232 port you could try?

tinmantom
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon 28 Oct , 2019 12:58 pm
Hardware/Software: Microrouter V3

Re: Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by tinmantom » Thu 31 Oct , 2019 15:39 pm

I can probably find another computer with a port (the one it came with only has one).

But I don't have any of the license details for the software - is there free software I can check the connection with?

Thanks

User avatar
Steve
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue 21 Feb , 2006 16:15 pm
Location: Denford UK

Re: Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by Steve » Thu 31 Oct , 2019 16:12 pm

Hi the software license is to the original owner of the equipment and non transferable.

However the software can be downloaded from our website so that you are using the latest version.

http://website.denford.ltd.uk/software- ... s-support/

The licence file can be recovered from the PC that has the software loaded on it and then be copied and transferred to the new computer.
This is covered in the attached post. I believe the licence file you have is a flash.ini file so is covered by the second part of the thread.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2543

DavidB
CNC Apprentice
CNC Apprentice
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue 19 Oct , 2010 16:06 pm
Hardware/Software: Triac

Re: Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by DavidB » Sun 03 Nov , 2019 1:28 am

I saw your problem and was wondering if the socket you tested the spindle motor with a kettle lead was on a different supply RCD to the one that tripped or the same. The reason I ask is that RCDs can go bad and trip with some loads, I experienced it with my TIG welder where when switched it on it would trip the house RCD which had never happened before, nothing else would trip it. I had the welder tested by the supplier and it came back 100% so got in an electrician who tested the RCD and it was bad so was replaced and the welder wouldn't trip it anymore so all was good again. The electrician mentioned that it's a good idea to test the RCDs every 3-4 months in order to exercise them which helps them from going bad. May not be your problem but just my comment from experience.

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 475
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by TDIPower » Sun 03 Nov , 2019 22:34 pm

Just had to have my RCD replaced on the house too, it tested fine on full and double load but would trip at half load! It does state on the documents with them that they should be test tripped once a month. It was my toaster that was a regular cause for tripping. Fortunately my garage is on a split after the meter rather than from the house board.

Pete

tinmantom
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon 28 Oct , 2019 12:58 pm
Hardware/Software: Microrouter V3

Re: Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by tinmantom » Mon 04 Nov , 2019 12:09 pm

Hi,

I've tried this with a new, known working rs232 port on the same original computer and no joy.

I did at one point get an 8 displayed on the led and then at another point an F but the PC never found the machine.

I guess that likely means the comm-board is at fault. What are my options here?

I've run an extension and tried the setup on all the different circuits (which all have independent rcbo protection) but they all cause the trip when the router spindle is connected (by a relay?) during startup.

Our voltage is pretty high (we're right at the end of a single phase line so they bump up the voltage for whenever we turn everything on!) - this morning its 254V - but can't see how that would cause an issue.

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 475
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by TDIPower » Mon 04 Nov , 2019 22:58 pm

The spindle motor does not come into play until you have it connected to a PC and a program running. the program needs to send a command to the control board to turn the spindle on and it will not let this happen unless all the safety interlocks are in the correct state (emergency stop not pressed and door is closed).

I am a little lost on the order of things as you say you get power to the machine so you can see the display yet your power trips off.
Lets break this down in to very small steps please.
Start with just the machine on its own nothing connected to it and the e stop button out.
With the router motor unplugged or switched off on its toggle switch power up the machine tell us what happens and what you hear and can you open the door.=

Next do the same but with the e stop pressed.=

Now this time have the router motor plugged in and switched on e stop out=

this time router motor in and switched on e stop pressed=

While you are doing this also pop the router motor out and examine the brushes for wear, they should be about 1" of carbon if memory serves.

Lets go from there and not worry about hooking up to a PC yet.

Pete

TDIPower
CNC Guru
CNC Guru
Posts: 475
Joined: Tue 29 Apr , 2014 18:38 pm
Hardware/Software: Starturn 5 (sort of running, I will get this done!)
Lathe cam designer V1.11
Quickturn 2D Design
FANUC offline and online programs.
Microrouter Pro NS V5 (microstep)
VR2 and VR5
Boxford VMC260
Techsoft 2d Design tools V1 > V2
ProDesktop
Fusion 360
Deskproto

Re: Tripping rcbo and coms issue

Post by TDIPower » Mon 04 Nov , 2019 23:03 pm

just another thought, where are you. If not a million miles away could maybe have a look

Post Reply