Cyclone "Bad day"

Emimec · Post by **Emimec** » Sat 14 Mar , 2009 21:57 pm

Following to my problems with the Cyclone, today was a disaster!

Last night she was running as sweet as anything, turned her on today, and got the not ready alarm again. Fiddled around with the 24v dc card in the transformer box, and off she went, so far so good.

Made 2 jobs, and up popped the turret overheat alarm 1007. Cancelled it, and continued to run the machine.

First operation ok, tool change, carriage back, machine alarmed out, turret overheat 1007, reset it, ok until the next tool change.

Changed program, same problem. Turret indexes ok manually though.

Studied 24v dc board. I noticed that where the 3 wires that go to the thyristor, the pins to the board are actually rivited, and movement of the wires allows a tiny spark to be seen where the pins attach to the board. Also, when moving the wires, all manner of contactors seem to go in and out in the main cabinet.

Solderd pins to board, no movement, no erratic contactors in cabinet.

And no joy with alarm 1007 !!

Opened back of cabinet, removed turret control board, cleaned contacts, replaced, still difference.

Ran machine on auto with back of cabinet open, first cut, facing operation, went ok, but I did see a red light appear on one of the contactors in the cabinet back, marked ALRM before the cycle finished. When that cycle did finish, alram 1007, turret overheat appeared. Reset, continued, turret back for a tool change, alarmed out again.

Only one tool indexed ok after this on the same programme.

Sometimes, alarm will not clear immediately, you have to give it 10 minutes, then it will clear.

Quesions.
Can I still get a replacement 24v dc board?

Could the thyristor be the culprit?

Is there an improved board?

Any other ideas welcome please.
Bob

Pete. · Post by **Pete.** » Sun 15 Mar , 2009 14:15 pm

You could try going over all the connectors with stabilant. Read about it here:

http://www.posthorn.com/Stab_2.html

Emimec · Post by **Emimec** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 11:42 am

Thanks, I'll look into this.
Error on my first post, what I thought was a thyristor, is in fact a voltage control device
Bob

bradders · Post by **bradders** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 11:55 am

Bob,

Could not find any details re the 24v power supply. Can you post a picture of it so we can try and identify ?

Lone_Ranger · Post by **Lone_Ranger** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 14:27 pm

Hi Bob

I doubt the issue is with the 24V PSU, you would be back on the old alarms.

It is more likely to be the rotary switch inside the turret that isn`t being connected properly, could just be the turret is still a bit stiff from long standing and has some "gunge" in it`s mechanism that isn`t allowing it to go fully to the right position.
When I got my first Cyclone I had a similar problem, the turret wouldn`t always fully seat and the machine would either alarm out or run with a loose turret and believe me that`s scary!!
I put a double toolchange in my code so the control did an extra "change" once the turret was in position and that did the trick!!
eg
T0303 M06
T0303 M06

FYI Bob and Bradders
24V PSU is a
Lambda LVS-45E-24
Input 105~132V or 187~250V
47~63Hz @ 80W

Nearest I could find online is at RS-Online (Good old Radio Spares!!) here:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/sear ... breadCrumb
Price £69.99

Regards
Rob

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Emimec · Post by **Emimec** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 16:12 pm

Hi Rob
It just seems so strange that it was running almost perfectly the night before? How is the rotary switch accessed?
I get the impression, from watching the black thing in the back of the cabinet, that may well be a contactor marked ALRM, that it knows something is wrong before it happens, as the red led comes on before the screen displays alarm, and the turret has not revolved. However, I see your point, and it would explain how on one cycle it did index one station correctly. I wonder if the coolant has found a way in to the rotary switch?

I couldnt access the link you sent? Is the Lambda you mention actually your board? Sounds like it might be a newer version than mine.

We did get the old problem of spindle overheat alarm at start up, and again during tests yesterday.
Thanks
Bob

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 17:10 pm

Does the part with the Red LED on ithave a knob & dial on it??

It sounds like it is the voltage sensing relay for the toolpost.

If it is then the toolpost motor has will have a thermistor inside that is fed 24volts DC. When the motor gets hot the voltage drops & the Voltage Sensing Relay should activate & bring up the "turret overheat alarm 1007".
From what I reemember you can turn the dial right down because when the motor heats up the voltage drops away within seconds.

Is the toolpost motor hot when the fault appears?

If you are replacing the 24Volt PSU make sure the current rating of the new one is correct.

Lone_Ranger · Post by **Lone_Ranger** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 17:33 pm

Emimec wrote:Hi Rob
It just seems so strange that it was running almost perfectly the night before? How is the rotary switch accessed?
I get the impression, from watching the black thing in the back of the cabinet, that may well be a contactor marked ALRM, that it knows something is wrong before it happens, as the red led comes on before the screen displays alarm, and the turret has not revolved. However, I see your point, and it would explain how on one cycle it did index one station correctly. I wonder if the coolant has found a way in to the rotary switch?

I couldnt access the link you sent? Is the Lambda you mention actually your board? Sounds like it might be a newer version than mine.

We did get the old problem of spindle overheat alarm at start up, and again during tests yesterday.
Thanks
Bob

Hi Bob

You have to take the turret off and then dismantle the mechanism to get to the switch, not somewhere you want to go unless it is "last resort", lot of work!!!

If the switch is not making "best" contact then it`s possible that when the machine is running the vibration is disturbing the connection and then because the turret control board isn`t getting the right signal from it then you get the alarm situation.
You say the turret will position OK manually using the switch and button on the front of the machine, that says that there isn`t anything "broken" either mechanically or electrically and is down to the signals the control is getting back from the turret I reckon??
When it goes back to machine "home" position for the toolchange does the turret try to do the change or does it alarm out straight away??

One other reason for turret alarms can be not having the tool cancelled properly, Fanuc will throw a "wobbler" and either do the change and then go overtravel or just refuse the command and alarm out.
I always use "T0000" when I move from the workpiece to the toolchange position to cancel the tool and all it`s offsets before calling up the next tool!!

Yes, you can can actually do turret changes by manually pressing the contactors in the back of the panel, also when a change takes place there is a short delay on the second contactor to allow full positioning!!

Yes, that Lambda is the 24V PSU that is in my cabinet, the machine is Dec 1988 and the serial number is 101088.

Surprised you can`t get the link to work, works fine for me!! Anyone else got a problem with it???

Regards
Rob

Post by **Denford Admin** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 17:43 pm

FYI That link works fine for me as well.

I'd keep an eye on ebay as well though..we just sold a surplus Omron S82K-10024 Power Supply 4.2A 24V DC PSU for £12:50 !

Emimec · Post by **Emimec** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 19:21 pm

Link works fine now I am at home, must have been the college internet system !

Emimec · Post by **Emimec** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 19:34 pm

In this picture, it is the bottom right device with ALRM that the red light comes on before the turret moves back for a tool change. I dont recall any dials on this, but there are on the ones in the centre of the picture.

Alarm comes on before turret does a tool change

Emimec · Post by **Emimec** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 19:35 pm

Error
It should read for the lower picture, bottom left marked ALRM
Bob

Emimec · Post by **Emimec** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 19:38 pm

Motor does not feel hot at all when alarming out.

Emimec · Post by **Emimec** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 21:57 pm

"One other reason for turret alarms can be not having the tool cancelled properly, Fanuc will throw a "wobbler" and either do the change and then go overtravel or just refuse the command and alarm out.
I always use "T0000" when I move from the workpiece to the toolchange position to cancel the tool and all it`s offsets before calling up the next tool!! "

I spoke to Gizmo ( my "Man" ! ) about this, he said he is not putting this code in, but queried why the machine worked ok all friday night?
REgards
Bob

Lone_Ranger · Post by **Lone_Ranger** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 22:33 pm

Emimec wrote: I spoke to Gizmo ( my "Man" ! ) about this, he said he is not putting this code in, but queried why the machine worked ok all friday night?
REgards
Bob

Bob

Exactly what toolchanges did the machine run on the Friday night when it was OK??

It may be specific turret positions or sequences/combinations it won`t do correctly??

Is it being hand coded or CadCAM coded?? All the CadCAM software I have used the Post processors always put out a Tool cancel of some kind for Fanuc OT and the machine control generally requires it!!

Regards
Rob

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Emimec · Post by **Emimec** » Mon 16 Mar , 2009 23:47 pm

Hi
It is hand coded.
I will get the program and post it if I can.

How lucky I am having owned EMI-MEC lathes !!!, every day a problem, so nothing changes !!!
Thanks
Bob

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue 17 Mar , 2009 0:39 am

I would guess that the Barruffaldi control card may be outputting the fault. It may not be a thermal alarm. Are there any led`s on the control card that light up at this time. When does the alarm activate. You should be able to follow the toolchanger routine from the led`s.
Could it be as simple as the clamp switch either sticking in or not been activated at all.

Emimec · Post by **Emimec** » Tue 17 Mar , 2009 7:56 am

Martin wrote:I would guess that the Barruffaldi control card may be outputting the fault. It may not be a thermal alarm. Are there any led`s on the control card that light up at this time. When does the alarm activate. You should be able to follow the toolchanger routine from the led`s.
Could it be as simple as the clamp switch either sticking in or not been activated at all.

Yes, there is one extra red LED on the turret board that lights up when in alarm state. I did a sketch, but its at the workshop. From memory, I think it is the last red LED on the second bank, to the right of the card that is on when in alarm state. However, the "Black thing" on the second photo marked ALRM lights up its red LED part way through the cycle, just before the turret retracts and before the the turret rotates.
Bob

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue 17 Mar , 2009 8:28 am

It may be the toolpost clamp switch is stuck in. If you remove the large circlip on the right hand side of the toolpost & then the metal disc you will see the rotary position switch on the centre of the shaft & below it the small Honeywell clamp switch. It may be worth checking this switch out. I would guess that it should activate one of the LED`s on the Barrufaldi control card.

Lone_Ranger · Post by **Lone_Ranger** » Tue 17 Mar , 2009 8:42 am

Emimec wrote: just before the turret retracts and before the the turret rotates.
Bob

Hi Bob

Are you saying that it is going to "alarm" state before the turret moves away from the workpiece??

Rob

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Denford Software & Machines

Denford Software & Machines

Cyclone "Bad day"

Cyclone "Bad day"